Vietnam Veterans Discriminated against on Veterans Day 2010
I received a call on November 12, 2010, from a Vietnam Veteran, who is a member of the Vietnam Vets MC.
He and some other Vietnam Veterans who are members of his club were illegally denied entry to a complimentary buffet at the Pechanga Hotel and Casino, in Temecula, CA, on Veterans Day.
We had a conversation about the incident. He sent me the below letter, and gave me permission to publish it here.
I am utterly appalled that an establishment such as Pechanga, an Indian Casino, would discriminate against Veterans on Veterans Day simply because they were wearing a Vietnam Vets MC patch.
Unless Pechanga makes amends to these Veterans, offers them a full apology, promises never to do something like this again, and makes things right with the guy’s and their families who were discriminated against, I am calling for a full boycott of Pechanga Casino.
Below is the actual letter that was sent to me by Mr. Ingersoll after our conversation.
On Thursday, November 11, Veterans Day, eight Veterans, seven Vietnam Vets and one active duty Marine, as well as two of their wives, were threatened with arrest and told to leave the Casino.
After leaving the Menifee Veterans Memorial Dedication ceremony in Menifee we headed to Pechanga for the complementary buffet offered to honor Veterans.
While in line for about 20 minutes we were approached by Pechanga Security and told we would have to leave because we were wearing our vests with a mc on the back. MC stands for Motorcycle Club. Also on the back of the vest was a patch that said VIETNAM VET, and USA, THE COUNTRY WE FOUGHT AND MANY DIED FOR.
Lt Jim, of their Security, said he would have us arrested for trespassing if we did not leave. As Vietnam Vets, this was the same treatment we received in 60’s and 70’s.
This is the year 2010, you would think that Veterans deserve more, not this.
It was embarrassing and humiliating to be treated with such disrespect in front at least 40 patrons, who could not believe what was happening.
I, Robert Ingersoll, a former Marine and retired school teacher of 35 years, had called the Casino a week earlier to make sure that wearing our vests would not be a problem. I was assured that it would not be a problem by SGT Moreno (spelling may not be right).
He said he would tell everyone in the days briefing that Veteran Motorcycle Clubs may be attending. We have been in many other Casinos in the area, without a problem. In fact the Vietnam/Legacy Vets, along with the Rez Riders, an Indian Motorcycle Club, have sponsored Toy runs for Years at other Casinos.
There are many Veteran Motorcycle Clubs in the area, Vietnam Vets, Legacy Vets, Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), American Legion Riders, Brotherhood of Marine Corps Riders, Leathernecks, Rough Riders, and many more.
There have been court cases that state: DESCRIMINATION AGAINST BIKERS ON THE BASIS OF CLOTHING OR MOTORCYCLE CLUB MEMBERSHIP IS ILLEGAL IN CALIFORNIA. Unruh Civil Rights, Act CC 51, et seq. and Cohen V California, a Supreme Court ruling, that stated that individuals have the right under the First Amendment to wear clothing which displays writing or designs.
The last time I looked, Pechanga Hotel and Casino is in California and part of the United States.
PECHANGA’S CONDUCT TOWARD THESE VETERANS WAS UNACCEPTABLE AND DISGRACEFUL.
After leaving Pechanga we headed to Applebee’s on highway 79 in Temecula. There we ate, were treated with respect and dignity, and the manager ask to take a picture of us for their wall. Pechanga should send its staff to Applebee’s for training on how to truly honor and respect Veterans.
Robert Ingersoll
Murrieta, California
Welcome, my name is 
This is “shameful”. Is there not anything that can be legally done??
I can’t believe the guy called and was told ok and then this!!
We need to respect our active military and veterans.
Go get em Norm!!
Unfortunately since this occurred at an Indian Casino, the only redress would be through the tribal counsel. The Indian reservation is for all intents and purposes a sovereign nation within the State and the United States. There are very limited circumstances where you could sue the tribe in State or Federal Court for acts occurring on the reservation.
Most people do not realize that when you step into an Indian Casino, you are basically stepping into a foreign nation on our land. I have many calls from people who get injured on the reservation, and there is really nothing we can do.
This is all I can say about this for now Sandie.
Norm
From what I understand if the Rez receives any federal monies, This still is illegal and can be taken to a federal court for other purposes, like not filling the federal requirements to receive federal Aid, Assistance to individuals who are registered members who live on the Rez, School funds. Start talking about stopping the federal or state money and I bet they change their tune. If they don’t make a big deal about how sorry they are, they are not sorry and we should BOYCOTT and have the Proud tribes of this great nation stand up with us and tell them if they don’t like it they can always move their Casino south of the border and see how they are treated down there.
Nothing has changed from the day we were inducted into the armed services of this country and became Vietnam Vets. WE have been mistreated, misunderstood and denied VA benefits because we served our country and did what was required of us in a war that was unpopular with many Americans.
I am not a Vietnam Vet Edward, but I respect your service.
Norm
When I learned about what happened to my friends on Veteran’s Day I was shocked and horrified over the blatantly discriminatory actions by Pechanga Casino. Even if they had not been my friends, I would have been angered by such a story. But, being that these men are so special to me makes the insult so much deeper.
I can visualize them standing in line looking forward to a nice meal and enjoying themselves on this significant holiday. Instead they were treated with abominable disrespect.
I hope the vets will receive the re recompense they deserve.
I understand and appreciate your point and your service, but no one in this country has been treated worse than the Natives. If people knew the real history as opposed to what is taught in public schools today they would be more understanding.
As far as the casino issue goes, as much as I agree with everyone here that they should have been let in, they ARE an independent sovereign nation, not part of the US as described in the letter, and can expel anyone from the reservation they choose. Furthermore, being a private establishment, the casino has the right to refuse service to anyone they want.
I’m not saying I agree with it, I’m simply saying that’s the way it is. Boycotting is really the best solution.
How native Americans were treated is irrelevant to what they did here.
Protest can and should be set up off tribal land at the entrance to the casino. I know this casino, and it is set up on the edge of tribal land. There is a main street where protest can be set up.
Norm
Quote.. “no one in this country has been treated worse than the Natives.” I could not disagree with you more. Going back to the days where the true American indians were wronged is foolish to equate that time in history
to 7 men,Vietnam Vets all, to even think that you would discrimate now in present day America is giving casinos to pick and choose whom they want
to serve. Did you know that these men were fighting for the freedoms of “”ALL”” Americans??
When does this profiling stop???
I can not believe the narrow mindedness in this.
To my present day Vets, welcome home and may God bless you all.
Jim…!!!
Gentlemen,
Let us have some critical thinking here and not jump to conclusions.
Mr Ingersoll wrote, “While in line for about 20 minutes we were approached by Pechanga Security and told we would have to leave because we were wearing our vests with a mc on the back. MC stands for Motorcycle Club.” Please read his statement as written above
He was asked to leave because of the MC patch. This is the same action taken as if a M***, H***, V*** or any other MC patch wearwer would be asked.
I was in the Marines 65-69 and in RVN 67-68. I was treated poorly as well but that was 40 years ago. Let us get rid of the paranoia
** Club names edited out of comment**
I am a 36 year vet starting with Vietnam. I think you might change your MC to a riding club. The MC emblem has a bad reputation and through no fault of yours it is percieved as bad. Look up the difference of MC vs RC and it is very different. Be unified and be proud but don’t bring bad feelings on yourself by saying you are by wearing a MC patch.
Barry as a 36 year veteran what did you serve and fight for? Freedom right? Where is it written that being a member of a motorcycle club, and wearing a motorcycle club patch is a bad thing?
The 1st Amendment to our constitution guarantees our right to freedom of speech and freedom of association. Free speech includes being able to wear a motorcycle club patch.
Norm
I agree with B.A. Just because it isn’t fair, doesn’t mean that isn’t how it is.
Most people (the general public) don’t understand the differences between the thousands of patches and can’t distinguish between them. They hear bad things about one, and assume the rest are that way too. B.A. is simply saying to take advantage of this. If you don’t want to be viewed as an “MC”, don’t be one.
Ryan I read all 3 of your comments and it appears to me that you are anti-freedom, anti-biker, and anti-veteran.
This is a free country. If someone wants to be in a MC they can be in a MC, no matter what anyone thinks. This concept is called freedom. Luckily we have something called the United States Constitution. This Constitution allows Americans to basically wear anything they want so long as it is not obscene.
Norm
Please a riding Club? You want us to conform to people opinions? I thought we were in a free country, and yes i am retired army, most in MCs are former or active military. We appreciate your service but, we served in the mlitary to protect your right to be differnent not to be discrimanated agaist because we wear a Veterans MC patch.
I agree with this guy. I am sure most normal thinking folks will too. Excellent comment.
Excellent Glen. I fought for every American and never flinched once. I shed my blood 3 different times, 3 Purple Hearts and more for all suppressed Americans those who need our help for their freedoms and of any color or belief. I am Cherokee and Swedish.
Warmly, Jim..!!!
This is Bullshit every veteran or Military Bike Club should boycott this place. Every Veteran fought for his country and to have rights to wear what they want, and if I remember right there is a law against this kind of discrimination. I fought for my country for twenty one years and this hotel and casino can kiss my WHITE PATRIOTIC ASS !
Poor treatment to any vetran on Vetran’s Day or any other day is hard to tolerate and almost unimaginable in public on Vetran’s Day.
I think there is more to the story than Mr. Ingersoll put in his letter and several things stand out. The original letter from Mr. Ingersoll states “While in line for about 20 minutes…”. Okay, what happened in that 20 minutes? I would think that if the casino didn’t want them there because of their patches on their vests, they would have done something long before 20 minutes went by. Possibly as soon as they parked their bikes in the parking lot. Besides, any private establishment can turn away or refuse to serve potential customers. Not a wise thing to do, but it isn’t illegal.
Face it. What a few did for years still gives a stigma to those who ride a bike and it will still take years to get past that. It’s a sad fact to live with.
Actually Crisco you are mistaken. Private establishments cannot discriminate based upon age, sex, religion, national origin, or other articulated protected classes. Secondly, selective discrimination is also not allowed. Establishments are allowed to have a dress code, but the dress code must uniformly be enforced. You cannot say no motorcycle patches, and let some motorcycle patches in.
The problem here is that an Indian casino is a sovereign nation for purposes of issues such as this, the solution would be through the tribal counsel, and a boycott. If they lose enough money, they won’t discriminate against veterans on veterans day.
Norm
So you are calling this man a liar? More to the story???? You’re either a cop or a lying liberal trying to stir the Sh!t, either way, go F2ck yourself!
Being a Marine Nam Vet, I can understand your disgust with this casino. I have always had the opinion that they think there crap doesn’t stink and have not spent a dime there in 8 years, and after this incident will never step on there property again. I suggest your write every editorial page in every newspaper in SoCal and also contact some of the tv stations with your story. Knuckleheads like these need to exposed. Good luck.
This is not the first time this has happened by a Casino. We the BLACKHORSE REGIMENT CAVALRY MOTORCYCLES where asked to remove our colors by the Casino’s Security. This stemed from past violence by MC’s from 1% Clubs who fought between each other. It’s good to now know there’s a Law that prevents Casino’s from breaking this law. Our Regiment’s Club has been to Vegas Casinos and Laughlin with no problems. Those Casino’s that use the old biker syndrome shoud be ashamed of their actions. Allons and Semper Fi to our Brother and Sister Veteran Riders. Many who ride also with PGR
NAM 68/69 .. I will not go to that Casino .. I am tired of getting spit at for being an Nam Vet.. This is not the 70’s
Keep up the fight men .. WELCOME HOME…..
Thank you for your service!
Norm
I have observed at casinos in our area that many of the security are locals, and non-NA. I might have politely requested to speak with their sup, and so up to a Tribal Rep, to make sure that this “order” was actually coming from local tribal leadership. Fucking cops are fucking cops, no matter whether they’re minimum wage rentals or not. Little men with little minds with just enough authority to feel important.
CDC
I need to contact Vietnam Buddy from the 11thACR 1970–1971 HHT he was Norm urelyE=5 and the
Jeep driverfor the Commander as I was HHT radio ID Traver Control Carlos Moreno E-5 Norm and myself get together after vietnam as he cam to my home with a number of his buddys from LA and we lostcontact with each other please help!!!!!!!!!
I am not a veteran, but I have uncles a father and grandparents who have served our country well. I as a harley rider would be more than willing to protest the casino and hit them in their pocket book. I am sure a weekend of motorcycle riders with signs protesting, lined up on the street going into the casino. Would have some effect on them. As well as some media attention for future income $
God Bless Veterans
Leslie that is a great idea. If you are willing to organize something like that, I would post it here on the Biker Law Blog, notify the Vietnam Vets, and give you some good places to post the notice of protest.
Let me know,
Norm
I doubt very much they will allow you on the reservation to protest their casino, but good luck.
I am ashamed to know that people can not treat Vets with respect not just only on their day…but on every day of the year !
They deserve our respect and caring !
I had an event on 10/10/10 to raise funds for our injured Troops and I must say i WAS PROUD TO HAVE
THE VIETNAM VETS MC
THE LEGACY VETS MC
AND THE LEATHERNECKS MC
attend my event
When these MC’s show up anywhere they should be given V.I.P. SERVICE
Period !!!
On 11/11/11 next Veterans Day We are putting on
a Nationwide Major Event
and I invite all The Military MC to all the events that will happen across the U.S.A.
as it is because them that I can sit FREE AT MY DESK TODAY and write this !!!
THANK YOU GOES TO OUR VETS FOR ALL YOU DID AND ALL YOU ARE STILL DOING !!!
AMERICA LOVES YOU ALL !!!
I’m a disabled Vietnam -‘ERA’ Vet of the United States Navy. When I mustered out in 72 it was the norm to be ridiculed by the media.
Today’s active duty soldiers and veterans are much more respected by media and are allowed to jump to the head of the line at the Veterans Administration when it comes to filing a claim for disability.
It’s not just Indian Nations who still discriminate against us.
That friggen sucks Moses.
Norm
I remember when I was in high school when our brave men in Vietnam were returning home.
They were treated different. It was almost like they were given the blame for the war.
I remember a big stink because the local VFW did not want to let those veterans join. It split our small farming community and was talked about Sunday morning in church. One would think that we would change and be grateful for our military. I know that I am.
SEMPER FI
As a Veteran and a sister of a Vietnam Veteran this makes me cry. My brother passed away a couple years ago and I was young when he came back from Nam. I remember the crap her went through. I am appalled by this behavior. I am also a member of the American Legion Riders and I pray we are never treated that way. I honor all Vets. Especially Vietnam Vets.
amen brother, agree 100%
this is a outrage.how low can society go?these people gave willingly to there nation and this is the appreciation and respect they get in respect.
my brothers in california i here you and respect you and feel it is a shame and can not keep haping ,..we do not have that shameful problem here in florida your more than welcome in our state ,…Give None Take None !!
LRB luv ya all .
Cage LVMC VNV/LVMC
We need to learn to Respect Our Vets !
There is no other way, they Deserve to be respected
for giving so much of themselves !
they never expect to be Thanked and thats why we should
Thank them everyday,
What happens to our Vietnam Vets was Shameful
but We can make it right now..
We can Thank every Vet we see walk by us
One Thank You even years later does help !
I am a Veit Nam vet also. I feel for those who were treated so bad on V-day. It should not have happend. I am proud of my service, but because we were given a label for our time in service, I don’t advertise the fact that I am a Vet other than my Mil ID card. But I would gladly stand up for any Veteran. More power to all of you and I hope you all get the respect that you all deserve.
To: All the Brothers and Sisters who were asked to leave a public restaurant on veterans day you have my respect for leaving without a display of
the same sort of respect shown. I have also been asked to turn my vest inside out at biker bars during bike week at Daytona Beach. This but only to
keep the peace by creating a neutral territory within the house. My vest only had an American Flag
and Eagle displayed. Thus said, I find it hard to believe a restaurant who is putting on a breakfast
for Veterans on Veterans Day, would find this an appropriate action against a group of citizens displaying patches that are paying homage to a Veterans group, any Veterans group. They obviously don’t understand bikers or veterans. We would not
cause trouble for or allow anyone to disrespect those who served in combat for our country.
I am a Vietnam Combat Veteran,who served with C/Co.1st Btn. 5th Marines,1968. I also was the first
President and a co-founder of the (Vietnam Combat Veterans Combined Armed Forces Association). We were a small group of Vietnam Veterans,from Worcester, Massachusetts, who formed this group in 1980 to fight just this sort of action and retort against
a frame of mind that would chastise a group of fellow citizens who were asked to serve their country and did so. Then upon returning home were
slighted, disrespected and often much worse.
We, some who had been home for over a decade at that time (1980) had thought, we had seen it all. But it was the, 60’s thru 80’s and the world was changing. Vietnam Vets Against the War like the not yet Senator, John Kerry from Massachusetts, had helped, erroneously I might add, create an atmosphere and ambivalence against Vietnam Veterans. He stood and spoke of attrocities he and others participated in, against private citizens of Vietnam, while serving in Vietnam as a Navy Lieutenant. An officer in the service of his country. He then ran for public office as a decorated Vietnam War Veteran. A Vietnam War Hero, which he was often introduced as, when running for President of these great, United States, of America..
I would challenge that premise on but this point, that the presently seated Senator from the State of Massachusetts, was a champion, but after the war. As a Vietnam Veteran Against the War. In doing so, he fabricated untruths, about fellow vets and protested against that war and his fellow Veterans and did willfully help create the atmospher and opinions we often as Veterans have encountered and continue to encounter to this day. It was the thing to do back then, especially if you wanted to ride a popular ideology into public office. Why was he not, queeried more strenuously about his, self proclaimed mind you, participation in those attrocities. For if true, he should have been punished, not elected by the people, who protested that war with him.
In sum : Brothers and Sisters we must remand back to incidents, for clarification before passing judgement on anyone. Get all the facts and then allow people their inallienable right to disagree with us. For if you are successful in stifling someone else, you shall yourself be stifled. Yes it is a fine line and I for one as a Vietnam Veteran have found myself walking it from time to time protecting the right of others with whom I have vehemently disagreed. Then again, I am only a common man with a single voice. Though inspired by your voices, to offer mine. In respectful protest, to anyone who would disrespect those who would serve our country and answer it’s call.
The Young men and women who are serving so honorably now, are not only answering their countries call, after an act of war upon it,but in doing so are standing tall and defending others who might not otherwise be able to defend themselves, against the forces of tyrrany,oppression and or terrorism on their own.
May I make this offering, that we who are about to celebrate our blessings as a nation, in thanks giving, offer in all our humility and our grace,
in our reference, and in our reverence, in whatever your faith, whatever your beliefs, whatever your conviction and or tongue, a Hope that all the leaders of the world might find the strength to put aside their anger, hatred and differences, that this war might end and we as people, might allow the children of the world to live in peace and harmony..
Semper Fi
Red Burdett
Vietnam Combat Veteran
A/K/A hywypoet@cfl.rr.com
I live close to Pechanga, and can guarantee that they will never see another dime from me. It might not be much I’m taking out of their pockets, but it’s something and it’s what I can do. I just hope others join me, I’ll be hanging at Pala when I want to go to a casino.
APPALLING…..PROTEST!!!!! I wonder what percentage of daily costumers are Veterans? I suggest a “CALL TO ARMS” on ALL possible pages of media,to veterans and civilians alike to protest in solidarity on behalf of OUR disrespected Veterans on OUR disrespected NATIONAL holiday.
Hi Guys,
Firstly respect you all. I Find that what the Penchenga Casino has done by refusing you guys as VETERANS disgusting. I hope you have every success in your actions against them.
Secondly we have just had our Rememberence day and from one Veteran to another I would like to say….
“They shall not grow old,
As we that are left grow old,
Age shall not weary them nor the years condem,
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We Will Remember them.
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM….
Deano
Road Capt.
The Syndicate Mcc
Former British Army.
We are in America and we are proud to wear our Flag !
I will wear my Flag and Red white and blue WHEREVER AND WHENEVER I WANT TO !
iF SOMEONE TELLS ME TO TURN IT INSIDE OUT OR TAKE IT OFF..
I WILL NEVER GO THERE AGAIN AND CALL ALL THE MEDIA ON THIS !!!!!!
tHIS IS BULL !
AND A SHAME THAT AMERICAN INDIANS ARE ACTING THIS WAY !
WE DO STILL HONOR THE TREATY
AND THEY SHOULD HONOR OUR TROOPS
THE TROOPS SERVE THEM ALSO !
THEY NEED TO APOLOGIZE A.S.A.P AND PUBLICLY
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD, INDIVISIBLE, WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL….GOD BLESS AMERICA VETERANS…..USA! STAND PROUD!
A Vietnam combat veteran was refused membership in the R.I. Combat Veterans Motorcycle Association because he fefused to be prospected by the R.I. CVMA state rep, even though prospecting is against the rules of the CVMA. Three Vietnam veterans stood up gor the Vietnam vet and were thrown out of the R.I. CVMA with the help of yheir national. The days of judging the Vietnam veteran are far from over. The R.I. CVMA refused a full member a special meeting on this issue, so the Viet vets could defend themselves against all accusations.
Guys I will not allow anymore comments that involve internal motorcycle club business. This thread was about Vietnam Vets being denied entry into an establishment that was open to the public.
Whether or not a particular MC or Association has a problem with members, or visa versa, is not proper fodder for this forum.
Thanks,
Norm
I am 1/2 Cherokee indian and Vietnam Vet.I am very decorated and I am humbled by kind words when I enter any Military base..
But, when I hear that this Casino, Pechanga, would
ask solid American Veterans to leave their Casino there needs to be some serious Dialog to our Pentagon and other entities that license these Casino’s need to start pulling back on allowing our money be used at any Un American Business such as this “HOLE”. I am as pissed as piss can be…
Sincerly, Vet Jim…!!!
ME TOO!!!! SHAME ON THEM.
Pechanga-You will be judged for he sees all.To all our Vets a huge Thank you..We don’t roll like that here in Northern New York.We honor our Vets with respect…J DOGG
Excellent Glen. I fought for every American and never flinched once. I shed my blood 3 different times, 3 Purple Hearts and more for all suppressed Americans those who need our help for their freedoms and of any color or belief. I am Cherokee and Swedish. Warmly, Jim..!!!
I am a Veitnam combat vereran, and think the casino make the right moves in booting these guys. VNVMC are only veterans when they can get something out of it. They go around the country harassing and physically accosting other Veteran groups that don’t see things their way. They are a bunch of want a be 1%ers that have forgoton what it is to be a veteran and are only interested in being bullies. They are a diisgrace to Veterans everywhere.
Crab
first of all pick your balls up and stop wining your just sad because you cant fit in ,and no one wants a ball-less biker,..Tks for your service in the military ,..maybe one day you can fit in ,with the rest of us Vets!!
Looking for a friend of mine of the Worcester Massachusetts chapter ON southbrig st.his name was Buster president please if some body nose him call me GUY F#951.850.9652