In a major development for the American motorcycling world, Polaris announced on October 13, 2025 that it will sell a majority stake in Indian Motorcycle to private-equity firm Carolwood LP, spinning the storied brand off into its own standalone company. Polaris — which acquired Indian in 2011 — will retain a minority equity stake after the deal closes, expected sometime in the first quarter of 2026.

Indian Motorcycle contributed roughly $478 million in the 12 months ending June 30, 2025 — about 7% of Polaris’s total revenues.

From a business standpoint, Polaris says the sale will improve its profitability — boosting adjusted EBITDA by an estimated $50 million and raising adjusted earnings per share by roughly $1.00.

But what does this mean for Indian as a brand, and for riders? There are both potential upsides and risks.

What Could Be Good for Indian — An Independent Comeback

🔹 Dedicated Focus & New Leadership

With Carolwood at the helm and a new CEO appointed — industry veteran Mike Kennedy (formerly of Harley-Davidson, Vance & Hines, and RumbleOn) — Indian now becomes a standalone operation.  That means no more competing for resources inside Polaris alongside side-by-sides, snowmobiles, and off-road vehicles. Instead, Indian can focus solely on cruiser and touring bikes — potentially allowing faster innovation, improved product development, and renewed emphasis on quality and brand identity.

🔹 Stability of Workforce & Operations

According to the agreement, approximately 900 employees — including engineers, designers, manufacturing staff — will transition to the new Indian entity. Production facilities (in Spirit Lake, Iowa and Monticello, Minnesota) and the design and tech center in Switzerland remain intact.

🔹 Brand Heritage & Possible Growth

Indian already carries a legacy muscle: “America’s first motorcycle company,” rich in history and rider loyalty. Freed from Polaris’s broader corporate constraints, Indian could double down on heritage — perhaps new cruisers, updated classics, modern powertrains, and renewed marketing to reclaim or expand its place in the U.S. and global cruiser market.

What Could Go Wrong — Risk with Private-Equity Control

⚠ Private Equity Doesn’t Always Ride for the Long Haul

Carolwood LP, like many private-equity firms, may prioritize short- to medium-term returns. That can pressure the brand to cut costs, limit R&D, or emphasize volume over long-term investment. If sales disappoint, core models might get delayed or scrapped.

⚠ Uncertainty About Quality, Parts Supply & Dealer Network

While Indian says it will continue sales, service, and support for dealers during the transition, the supply chain might tighten. If the new owners push hard for profit — parts availability, warranty support, or aftermarket support might suffer, at least initially.

⚠ Risk of “American heritage” being diluted

With private equity influence, there’s always the danger of cost-cutting or platform sharing that could undermine Indian’s identity among riders who bought into heritage and brand authenticity.

Polaris Keeps a Minority Stake — Why That Matters

Polaris maintaining a minority interest could be a stabilizing factor. It gives Polaris a continued financial tie to Indian’s success. It also may offer continuity in parts of production, supply chain, or resources during the transition. For riders, that could mean less disruption, and the benefit of a partially “seasoned” corporate spine behind a newly independent brand.

At the same time, because Polaris still holds a stake, there is added incentive for Carolwood to honor Indian’s legacy and maintain (or grow) value — which could bode well for long-term stability.

Final Thoughts

As a personal note, I bought an Indian Roadmaster new in 2017, and I absolutely love the motorcycle. In fact, I have never received as many compliments about a bike in my life, and I certainly didn’t buy it for attention—but that’s exactly what it gets everywhere I go. The only ongoing complaint I personally have is that the Indian dealer network is nowhere near as widespread or convenient as Harley-Davidson’s, which means I sometimes have to travel quite a distance just to obtain service. Also, for the last couple of years, the stereo system on my Roadmaster has had consistent Bluetooth connection problems with my Samsung Galaxy S25 Ultra, and Indian still has not come up with a fix. For a motorcycle in this price range, the Bluetooth should work properly—just like it does on all of my vehicles and other devices.

The sale of Indian Motorcycle may well mark the beginning of a new chapter — possibly one where Indian thrives free from the constraints of a diversified parent company. For riders and enthusiasts, this could bring renewed energy, refreshed models, and greater brand focus.

But with private equity now in the driver’s seat, there is risk. Riders should watch closely — for how Indian handles product quality, parts supply, dealer support, and the preservation of the brand’s heritage.

As always, time and execution — not headlines — will tell whether this deal is a rebirth for Indian Motorcycle… or just another corporate detour.

About the Author

Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.
California Motorcycle Accident Attorney
Founder – The Law Offices of Norman Gregory Fernandez
Biker Law Blog – Protecting Injured Riders Since 1997

📞 1-800-816-1529
🌐 https://bikerlawblog.com
🌐 https://thepersonalinjury.com

If you or a loved one has been injured in a motorcycle accident anywhere in California, contact me personally for a free consultation.

The post Polaris Sells Majority Stake in Indian Motorcycle — What It Means for Riders first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

By Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.
Biker Law Blog – https://bikerlawblog.com

There are few places in America that ignite the soul of a biker quite like the Great Smoky Mountains. Towering ridgelines, cool mountain air, dense forests, and miles upon miles of twisting Appalachian roads—this region is a paradise for motorcycle riders. It calls to experienced riders, touring bikers, adventure riders, and everyone who loves the open road.

Every year, Smoky Mountain Bike Week draws thousands of motorcyclists from around the country. But even outside the rally, this entire region offers some of the best riding anywhere in the United States.

As a lifelong biker and a California motorcycle accident attorney who has ridden all over the country, I can tell you: The Smokies are magical, but they’re not forgiving. You must respect the roads, the weather, the crowds, and the risks—especially on legendary stretches like the Tail of the Dragon, which has unfortunately become more dangerous in recent years.

Below is your guide to hitting the Smoky Mountains on two wheels—what to expect, which rides you can’t miss, and what dangers you must be aware of.

The Smoky Mountains: A Rider’s Dream

The Smokies offer a rare combination of:

• Cooler mountain weather

• Endless forested roads

• Elevation changes and technical twisties

• Scenic overlooks around every corner

• Hundreds of miles of rideable routes

From Tennessee to North Carolina, the mountains provide rides ranging from relaxed and scenic to downright technical and challenging.

If you go during Smoky Mountain Bike Week, the energy level skyrockets. Bands, events, vendors, and thousands of motorcycles fill the area. The rally is centered around the Townsend–Pigeon Forge–Sevierville region, but bikers flood the entire Smokies.

It’s a great time—but also the most dangerous time—so keep reading.

The Best Motorcycle Rides in the Smoky Mountains

1. The Tail of the Dragon (US 129)

318 curves in 11 miles.
No intersections. No driveways. Pure riding.

It’s beautiful. It’s iconic. It’s one of the most famous motorcycle roads in the world.

But here’s the truth:

California Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez Riding the Tail of the Dragon 2025

The Tail of the Dragon is no longer the relaxed technical ride it once was.

It has become:

• Overcrowded with inexperienced riders

• Swarmed with performance cars drifting corners

• A hotspot for GoPro daredevils

• Heavily patrolled by law enforcement

• One of the most accident-prone stretches of asphalt in America

Every year, riders go down. Some severely. Some fatally.
Many crashes happen because riders exceed their skill level, cross the double yellow, or get overwhelmed by the tight, continuous curves.

If you ride the Dragon:

• Keep your ego in check.

• Stay in your lane.

• Ride your own ride—not the guy in front of you.

• Avoid weekends if possible.

• Don’t chase the curve photographers—ride safely first, pose later.

The Tail of the Dragon is an amazing experience, but respect it or it will punish you.

2. The Cherohala Skyway (TN 165 / NC 143)

Many riders—myself included—prefer the Cherohala Skyway over the Dragon.

Why?

• Sweeping high-altitude curves

• Breathtaking overlooks

• Much less traffic

• Perfect pavement

• Cool temperatures at the highest points (sometimes 20 degrees cooler than the valleys)

It’s a fast, flowing, majestic ride that every biker should experience.

The Tail of the Dragon

3. The Foothills Parkway

One of the most scenic routes in the entire Smokies. Smooth, easy, panoramic.

This is the perfect ride if you want:

• Wide, gentle curves

• Stunning mountain views

• A relaxing ride that your passenger will love

• A break from the intensity of the Dragon

A great warm-up or cool-down ride.

4. Blue Ridge Parkway

The Blue Ridge Parkway stretches from Virginia into North Carolina, but the southern sections near the Smokies are spectacular.

This is a rider’s dream:

• No commercial traffic

• Low speed limits (and strict enforcement)

• Endless overlooks and photo spots

The parkway is less technical but unmatched in beauty.

5. Newfound Gap Road (US 441)

Running straight through the heart of the Smoky Mountains National Park, this road climbs to 5,046 feet and offers sweeping curves and jaw-dropping views.

Beware of:

• Tourists

• Wildlife

• Sudden weather changes

Still, it’s worth every mile.

6. The Moonshiner 28

A hidden gem—highly recommended.

Riders love it for:

• Tight curves

• Waterfall stops

• Beautiful forest canopy

• Low traffic

Runs from Deals Gap down to Walhalla, SC.

The Devil’s Triangle (TN 116): A More Technical and Far More Serious Ride Than the Dragon

If you want a ride in the Smokies that truly tests your skill, concentration, and respect for the road, look no further than The Devil’s Triangle—a brutally technical 44-mile loop near Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

While the Tail of the Dragon gets the fame, the photographers, the stickers, and the YouTube videos, the Devil’s Triangle gets your full mental focus. It’s a road for experienced riders who want something more challenging than the Dragon’s repetitive tight curves.

Why the Devil’s Triangle Is a Better Ride Than the Tail of the Dragon

Here’s the truth most serious riders know:

1. It is significantly more technical.

The Triangle features:

• Steep elevation changes

• Tight switchbacks

• Blind decreasing-radius turns

• Gravel-prone spots

• Narrow mountain passes

• Rapid transitions between fast and slow sections

The Dragon is intense—but predictable.
The Devil’s Triangle is not predictable. It demands real skill.

2. Far less traffic and fewer tourists

You can actually ride your own ride.

No massive car clubs.
No nonstop selfie stops.
No YouTube performance drivers drifting corners.
Just raw mountain riding.

The Smokey Mountains

3. More variety and better flow

The Devil’s Triangle combines:

• Twisties

• Sweepers

• Cliffs

• Forest runs

• Rural straightaways

• Technical climbs

It’s like getting every type of mountain road in one loop.

4. It’s a rider’s road — not a tourist attraction

There are no crowds. No commercial distractions. No circus.
Just you, your motorcycle, and a road designed to humble you if you lose focus.

5. It is more dangerous and requires REAL experience

This is not a road for new riders or those without mountain experience. People have gone down hard on this route because they misjudge a corner or lose concentration.

But for skilled riders?
It’s unforgettable.
Many say the Devil’s Triangle is the best ride in the Smokies—and I personally believe it is a better, more technical, and more satisfying ride than the Tail of the Dragon.

Smoky Mountain Bike Week: What to Expect

During the rally:

• Hotels are packed

• Popular roads are crowded

• Law enforcement presence is high

• Accidents increase dramatically

• Weather can shift quickly

But you also get:

• Incredible camaraderie

• Thousands of bikes

• Live music

• Scenic group rides

• Vendors and bike shows

• The electric feeling of riding among your own tribe

If you go, ride defensively. Many riders in the Smokies during rally week are unfamiliar with mountain riding.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez riding the Tail of the Dragon 2025

The Tail of the Dragon: Why It Has Become More Dangerous

Let’s break this down clearly.

1. Overconfidence + Inexperience

Riders see YouTube videos and assume they can handle it. Many can’t.

2. Car Clubs and High-Performance Vehicles

Corvettes, Porsches, BMW M-series, and tuner cars bombard the Dragon. Some drive too aggressively.

3. Double-Yellow Crossings

This is the #1 cause of collisions.

4. Fatigue

The Dragon has no breaks—curve after curve. Many riders mentally and physically tap out halfway through.

5. Speed + Tight Corners

Many riders underestimate the decreasing-radius turns and elevation changes.

6. Smartphones and GoPros

Too many people ride for content—not safety.

Final Thoughts: Ride Smart, Live to Ride Another Day

The Smoky Mountains are one of the most incredible motorcycle destinations in America. Whether during Smoky Mountain Bike Week or on a random weekday morning, the region delivers some of the best riding of your life.

But remember:

• Respect the roads.

• Don’t ride above your skill level.

• Take breaks.

• Drink water (dehydration causes crashes).

• Watch the weather.

• Keep your head and your pride in check.

Your goal isn’t to “conquer” the Smokies.
Your goal is to experience the mountains and get back home safely.

Ride hard, ride smart, and I’ll see you on the road.

— Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.
The Biker Lawyer
Biker Law Blog – https://bikerlawblog.com
Law Offices of Norman Gregory Fernandez – https://thepersonalinjury.com

The post Riding Your Motorcycle in the Smoky Mountains: What Every Biker Should Know (Especially During Smoky Mountain Bike Week) first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

Well for those of you who know me, and those of you who do not, I have suffered most of my entire life with a bad left knee.

I remember the day I wanted to play pop Warner football when I was 13 years old for the Chatsworth Chiefs. My father told me, “Norm, if you play tackle football you will screw up your knees.” I told him in response, “dad, I will not screw up my knees.”

Boy was I wrong. After playing running back for 2 years of pop Warner football, and then 2 years of high school football, I tore two ligaments off the bone in my left knee during my second year in high school. That was not only the end of my high school football career dreams, but the beginning of a lifelong suffering with a serious bad left knee.

Back in those days, 1979-1980, they did not have the technology they have today. As a matter fact, had the injury I had back then, happened even today, it would be a career ending type of injury modernly. I remember the doctors told me I may never walk normally again. I remember in surgery, they gave me a spinal which numbs the bottom part of your body, and then I was given a sedative, I was not under general anesthesia. I woke up during the surgery and observed the surgeon with one of those hand drills about to go to town on my knee. I suffered extensively from this injury.

After 6 months in a cast after the surgery, in my 11^th grade year of high school, they cut the cast off. In those days there was no physical therapy, and I just winged it on my own.

The next year I managed to pass the US Air Force physical exam, and went to basic training rather than going to 12 grade in high school. In other words, I took the GED and skipped my last year of high school. On the first obstacle course in Air Force basic training, I jumped off a simulated cliff, and promptly tore my knee again.

I kept my injury in basic training hidden because I did not want to get kicked out of the Air Force and sent home. In fact, I should have never passed the Air Force physical to get into the military to begin with. The scars on my knee from my high school football injury were still pink and healing, and I had limited range of motion, but I managed to make it in and do my thing. In basic training my knee swelled up to the size of a basketball and I was in excruciating pain, but I kept it hidden. After basic training I went and saw an outside doctor who stuck a needle in my knee and drained it which was a big relief.

In the years after basic training, I managed to somehow just deal with the bad knee. I was in a combat communications squadron, and we were constantly in the field, but my knee held out.

Sometime around 1987-1988, I tore my knee doing a flying hook kick at my Tae Kwon Do studio. I ended up having a second knee surgery because of that. The doctor did the best he could, but he told me that eventually later on in life I would need a knee replacement.

Basically from the time I was 17 until now, I have suffered with the bad left knee which got so bad, that if I stood for longer than just a few minutes my knee would stiffen up and it would be hard to stand and walk, or even if I sat down for too long, it was hard to get my knee to bend to walk.

On a recent trip to Italy with my wife, the pain in my knee was so bad that I literally ended up in a wheelchair at the very end, I simply could not walk more than 20 or 30 yards at a time without having to sit and rest my knee. The pain was unbearable.

I knew it was time to get my knee replaced. I went to Sturgis this year in August 2021 knowing that I would have my knee replacement on September 3, 2021. I rode my ass off in Sturgis, but while at Sturgis I suffered with my bad knee.

I went in for my knee replacement surgery on September 3, 2021. The doctor told me that if my bones were good that they would use a titanium knee replacement system. As I sat there waiting to be called in to preop, I was thinking whether or not I should actually go through with this?

Before I had a chance to change my mind, they called me in. My wife was allowed to wait with me in preop until they came to wheel me into the operating room. When I got into the operating room there were a lot of people in there. They pumped me with drugs, and the next thing I knew I was waking up being told that it all went well, and that they gave me the Titanium knee.

I am not going to go into all the gory details when I was waking up, and the numbness from the spinal was wearing off, but I will just say this the pain was through the roof. One of the nurses was telling me that I would not feel pain for 24 hours. Hell, as soon the spinal started wearing off, I could feel the pain in the knee even while the rest of the legs were numb. They gave me pain medication.

I developed a situation where my pulse was around 135 and my blood pressure was high. I knew that was not normal and I told the nurses and my surgeon who came to see me that I was concerned. They ordered a CAT scan, and it turned out that I developed what is called a pulmonary embolism, or a blood clot that went into my lung. As I was laying there, I did not know how dangerous my condition was. If you Google it, it says that 25% of people with a pulmonary embolism in their lung die of sudden death syndrome. I do not know if the 25% figure is accurate but they immediately put me on blood thinners. As I laid in my hospital bed I had no clue how bad my condition was.

The nurses told me that I was on a dosage of blood thinners that was higher than they had ever seen anybody else have before. Frankly, the pain in my knee was so bad that I kind of ignored everything else that was going on. After a knee replacement, all everybody wants for the first couple weeks as painkillers.

I really feel bad for my wife who actually had to sit there and watch me go through what I did. If it was her in the same spot as me, it would have torn me up having to go home alone at night leaving her there in the hospital.

Suffices to say because of the pulmonary embolism, I spent 9 days in the hospital, and then went to a skilled nursing facility for an additional 2 1/2 weeks, not only for rehab, but because my house was under construction at the time and the doctors told us that I needed to be in a clean environment.

To top it off, at my postop appointment, it turned out that the surgical wound opened up because of the blood thinners, which I am supposed to take for the next 5 to 6 months to prevent another pulmonary embolism, so I have been basically been on my ass for going on 3 months now waiting for the wound to heal, and hoping to get off of the damm blood thinners.

The knee replacement has affected everything in my life including work. Luckily, I have a good staff, and even though I’m not supposed to be working for a while, I still jump in when I have to.

You may have read in my Sturgis article that I have a paint repair the needs to be done on my motorcycle, but unfortunately that will probably have to wait until I can ride again, so I can take the motorcycle to a shop. I may tow the motorcycle, we will see.

I can honestly say at this point right now that I never would have had the knee replacement had I known what was going to happen. Then again, my wife always reminds me how bad my knee was before the surgery, and she tells me that in a few months I will be happy with the results. Me being in the middle of it right now, I just want the damn thing to heal.

So, there you are, my knee replacement from hell. I have to thank my surgeon, because he was the one that discovered the pulmonary embolism and probably saved my life by ordering the CAT scan.

I thank all the medical professionals that have and are taking care of me right now. Modern medicine is something else. I was told by my surgeon that he only sees two patients a year that have the surgical wound open like what happened to me, so I guess I and one of the lucky two that has to deal with it.

As I write this article, I am very hopeful for a full in good recovery. Once the wound heals, I will be able to start physical therapy. I am looking forward to getting back in the motorcycle as soon as possible, getting back to my Wing Chun kung fu, and riding with the guys from my motorcycle club.

I know I have got a hard few months ahead but I will get through this. I have nothing better to do right now then to negotiate cases for my clients and get them great settlements when I can.

By California motorcycle accident attorney Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq., November 27, 2021

The post The knee replacement from hell; taking me off the motorcycle for approximately 5 months or so, by Norman Gregory Fernandez, California Motorcycle Accident Attorney first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez on his bike at Sturgis 2021

As you all know I missed the 2020 Sturgis motorcycle rally due to the fact that there was a coronavirus pandemic, and I was high risk. At the time of the 2020 Sturgis motorcycle rally there were no vaccines available.

This year with the Delta variant of the coronavirus, there were warnings before the rally to mask up even if you are vaccinated, to avoid large crowds, etc., but that was not going to stop me from going to Sturgis. I had not had a vacation in two years and being an attorney at law is one of the most stressful jobs on earth.

I not only needed a vacation for my sanity, but for my clients as well because they need an attorney with a clear head. I opted to go to the motorcycle rally Delta variant or not.

My wife Little Teri as you all know is in medical school, and is scheduled to graduate in October 2021. Unfortunately for her, her school transitioned back to in person classes as opposed to remote classes, and her clinical training requires her to be on site at hospitals. In other words, she was not going to be able to go with me this year to the Sturgis motorcycle rally, not even for a couple of days by airplane.

Little Teri and I have not been apart since we met. Basically, we had our first date, and she never left.

I told myself after the Sturgis 2013 motorcycle rally, that I would never go alone again. Unfortunately, since Little Teri could not go this year, and she would not let me bring a surrogate 🙂 I had to go alone this year without her.

I could have gone somewhere else, but let’s face it there is no Sturgis motorcycle rally anywhere else on earth.

Motorcycle Accident Attorney Norman Gregory Fernandez riding motorcycle in a montage of 4 pics at Sturgis 2021.

Teri is a cool head and encouraged me to go because she knew I needed the break from work, it was that bad for me. Not only that, but I have an upcoming total knee replacement surgery, so the vacation was imperative.

Frankly, as the time got closer to the rally, Little Teri became a little irritable, because she could not come with me, and she loves it there. I promised her that I would call all the time, that we would do video calls while I was there, plus I would do Facebook live. I will discuss all of this below.

Everybody who reads the Biker Law Blog knows that I go to the Sturgis motorcycle rally every year (except 2020), and that I take my motorhome, trailer my motorcycle, and stay at the Glencoe campground which is the best place to stay when you’re at Sturgis.

This year I started prepping at least two months in advance to get everything ready. Got the motorhome serviced, my motorcycle serviced, had a new rear tire put on my Indian Roadmaster, had the mono shock replaced on the Indian Roadmaster, etc.

I could not wait to go to the rally, but it did suck that little Teri could not come with me.

I have been to the Sturgis motorcycle rally so many times now that it is almost like going home. It is over 1300 miles away each way, and as I get older the drive kind of sucks especially when you’re by yourself. But once you arrive at Sturgis you cannot wait to get on the bike.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez in the Black Hills

This year more than anything, I rode my ass off at Sturgis. I put over 2600 miles on my motorcycle at the Sturgis motorcycle rally, and my subsequent trip to Yellowstone National Park right after the rally.

Thank God for the Russell Day Long saddle that I had custom-made because without a good seat on the Indian, there is no way I could’ve put that many miles on the bike. You can see my story about the custom seat here.

Unfortunately, on my Russell Day Long saddle part of the ten coloring is rubbing off on one side of the seat. I will be contacting them very soon to get it repaired.

I put more miles on my bike at Sturgis this year than any other year that I can remember. One of the reasons being that I was by myself, and this is the first year that I did not get off the bike on the main drag and walk around like I normally do. I decided to protect myself from coronavirus, not to interact with the crowds on the sidewalk. I did ride my motorcycle up and down the main drag many times.

Also, when I went into stores at Sturgis, for the most part, I wore a mask. What was surprising to me, is that many people in South Dakota were wearing masks inside the stores, not just me.

I rode so many miles on certain days, that it was almost dangerous. Meaning, by the end of the day, I was so tired that it was not safe to ride anymore.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez’s campsite at Glecncoe Campground, Sturgis 2021

On one particular day near sundown, I rode from Mount Rushmore through Custer State Park, through the Iron Mountain Highway, and took the back route to the Needles Highway, just before sundown. In normal circumstances this would be a super advanced ride. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the hardest this would be a 10 ride. We are talking first gear twisties.

Just before sundown going in that direction the sun is in your eyes and you literally have to take one hand off the handlebars to block the sun so you can see. I don’t care what kind of sunglasses you have the glare is so bad if you don’t block the sun, you will not be able to see the road in front of you.

During this ride, I had to do this quite a bit. Once sundown hit, I realized that I was the only one on the road. I did this ride on Friday and the last day of the rally was on Sunday, so usually it starts winding down on Friday as far as people on the road. But at this time and at this location, I owned the road.

Now I don’t know if any of you have ridden through a forest like what exists as you are heading up to the Needles Highway in the Black Mountains through the back route, by yourself, with no one on the road, just after sundown, but it is almost like a scene from a horror movie. I knew that if I ate it, no one would probably find me until the next day, there is no cell phone service in this area. Secondly, all the forest critters come out at night at this time, and they own the forest in the dark. It was downright eerie. I am not a man that is afraid, but I knew I was not in a very good position and needed to get through there and back to the main highway to Deadwood as soon as possible. You definitely do not want to get stuck in the Black Hills at night, because of deer, Moose, bighorn sheep, and other critters that roam around there, especially at night.

California Injury Attorney Norman Gregory Fernandez at Needles Point, Sturgis 2021

Long story short, I learned my lesson, and I will never do that ride again just before sundown. It was a great ride, but I was kind of anxious to get out of there before it got dark. That is not the kind of ride you want to rush.

One thing I do want to say about Glencoe campground, and the rally overall, is that it is simply not the same as it used to be. They claim that the crowds were much bigger than last year, I do not know, I was not there last year. I can definitely say that the crowd was not as big as it was in 2015, that the rally is steadily losing attendance, seems to be dying out sooner, and there are many more trikes, and older people that then there used to be.

Simply put, we bikers who attend rallies such as Sturgis, are getting older, we are dying out, and we are not being replaced by the newer generation. The demographic at Sturgis is older than it was when I first started going there, then again, I am older is well.

Do not get me wrong, this trend is occurring all over the nation at every motorcycle rally, not just Sturgis. Further, Sturgis is still the mother of all motorcycle rallies. It is definitely packed, just not like it used to be.

When I first started going to Glencoe there was all sorts of adult debauchery going on at night, now the debauchery lasts only one or two nights maybe three, and then it dies out. By Tuesday the main drag at the Glencoe campground is dead compared to what it used to be. The main rally is still off the charts, but the campground dies out.

This could be due to the fact that Glencoe does not have name band acts like it used to, or simply that everyone is getting older.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez on his bike showing a little muscle at Sturgis 2021

Another factor is the rally is longer than it used to be. The rally used to be only one week, whereas now it is 10 days.

Obviously, I always recommend going to Sturgis. I have tried to get my friends to go with me every year to no avail, hopefully this year they will come.

Now with respect to Little Teri, I was able to do video calls with her, video calls while I was riding so she could actually be a part of it, and Facebook live videos.

I know she was bummed that she could not be there, but she is in a heavy-duty school, and she will be done soon. When I was in law school which took four years, all I cared about was getting through school, you kind of get used to sacrificing when you are at that level. Like I told Teri it’ll be over soon and next year you’ll be able to come with me.

I hope you enjoy this article and pictures that I posted with it.

God forbid if you’re in an accident anywhere in California give me a call at 800-816-1529, extension 0.

By California Personal Injury Attorney, Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq.

The post Sturgis motorcycle rally, 2021; a vacation without my wife :-) first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

Stock seat on 2017 Indian Roadmaster at the time of purchase.

My wife and I purchased a new Indian Roadmaster in approximately June 2017. You can see the stock seat on the motorcycle in this picture. (click on any of the pictures to see large size)

We rode for one year on the stock seat with no problems, plus the stock seat which is Indian Tan in color, was custom in of itself, and an integral part of the motorcycle look.

I have owned many motorcycles in the past, and on every one of them I purchased an aftermarket seat. I always chose Mustang for my seats. Mustang is a one size fits all solution as is Corbin, although they do take special requests for custom seats.

On my last motorcycle, which was a 2008 Electra Glide Ultra Custom, I purchased a premium seat for it from Harley-Davidson, and sold the stock seat. The premium seat was just fine for the years I had the motorcycle.

My wife and I were at the Sturgis motorcycle rally in August 2018, and put over thousand miles on the Indian roadmaster at that time. Let me tell you something, the seat on the Indian Roadmaster became a brick. Whatever support and padding the seat had in it was gone within a year. and It became so bad, that both of our asses were hurting after each ride at Sturgis. It literally became torture to ride on the stock seat for extended periods of time.

The outside of the Russell Cycle Products factory on the day we rode our motorcycle in.

I undertook looking for a new seat for the Indian Roadmaster.

I initially purchased a Mustang saddle for the Indian Roadmaster off the J P Cycles website, but the seat that I received was a different color brown than the Indian Tan color that is the color scheme on my motorcycle. Why would Mustang make a seat that does not match Indians color scheme? I immediately returned it.

My problem was not only that my tour pack back pad was Indian Tan, plus I have what is called Captain Inch heat shields for my motorcycle which are made out of leather, and they match the Indian Tan. I was not willing to replace all of that just for a new seat that was the wrong color. Plus, Indian Tan was the color I wanted not a dark brown it would take away the whole ambience of the bike.

No other motorcycle that I know of has the Indian Tan color on seats, that is exactly one of the reasons I love the Indian. The look sets it apart.

I talked to Mustang about their off color brown seat and they told me that usually their customers replace their stock black seats and the tour pack pad on the Indian all together to change from black to brown as a customization, and that their color was not intended to replace the Indian Tan color. What is bizarre is that they have Indian Tan for another model Indian, just not the Roadmaster. Anyway…….

A picture of the craftsman at Russell Cycle Products who made our custom seat at the factory.

They told me they could make a custom seat the same color as the Indian Tan, but they quoted me some exorbitant amount of money to do so. At the time of the writing of this article, which is a year and half later, they may have a matching seat now I’m not sure. Another thing to mention about a custom Mustang is that it was not a custom like the Russell Day Long, see below.

I looked at other options, and at the time there weren’t that many for the Indian. I looked at another manufacturer who sells one size fits all seats, but there were mixed reviews, and to keep my stock heating element that is built into the Indian seat, it would cost me just as much money to have a custom motorcycle seat made.

One thing I forgot to mention is that on the Indian Roadmaster, it does have a heated seat. Therefore, every aftermarket seat for this motorcycle is approximately $1000 plus or minus. They are expensive,unless you choose not to keep the heating. If you are going to pay 35k out the door for a motorcycle, why would you dump a feature like a heated seat?

After hours of research and one failed purchase that I returned, I chose to have a custom motorcycle seat made at Russell Cycle Products. Their seat is called the Russell Day Long.

One thing I should note about Russell Cycle Products, they can custom make a seat for you any way you want it, you can choose the type of covering material, the color, you can have custom stitching and embroidery, the sky and your imagination is the limit.

As for me, I wanted something that matched the stock seat as closely as possible.

What Russell does is they take your stock seat and make a custom seat from it utilizing you and your passenger’s measurements, your weight, and other criteria.

craftsmen inside factory making custom seats

You can either order their seat by mail, and send in pictures of you and your passenger on the motorcycle, with precise measurements along with your old seat for customization, or for lucky people like me who live in the same state, or in other close by states, you can ride in and have a custom seat made.

Hell you can also take a road trip just to get your custom seat made at Russell.

If you want to ride your motorcycle into their factory, you have to make an appointment with them first and pay a small deposit to ensure you will show up. I had to reschedule my appointment one time and they accommodated me.. They contact you to confirm before your appointment.

Because of the special nature of riding your motorcycle into the factory to have a seat made, they say they require an entire day.

I made my appointment which was months in advance. They were busy 🙂 I also conversed with them back and forth via email. They told me that if I wanted the Indian roadmaster with a diamond pattern like the stock seat has, that they would need two days to do the seat. (Turns out it only took one day) I told them no problem, we would take our motorhome from Southern California, put the bike in the trailer, and stay overnight in a local campground. Their factory is near Redding California which is a beautiful area.

View of new Russell Day Long Seat at factory without backrest on.

When the time came to go to the factory, we loaded up the motorcycle into our enclosed trailer, jumped in the motorhome and took off the night before. We ended up staying at a great campground just one freeway exit away from Russell’s factory.

We went to Russell’s in approximately December 2018 to get the seat made. I waited one year to write this review.

Russell Motorsports is in Northern California, whereas we live in Southern California. It is much colder in Northern California this time year, matter of fact some of the local mountains there had snow.

Many easterners will probably laugh at this part of the article but for a Southern California boy like me we are not used to snow, it is alien to us. Cold is alien to us 🙂

The morning of our appointment I was feeling a bit under the weather because we drove 12 plus hours in the motorhome, it was cold, and I was not feeling well , nonetheless, my wife and I took the bike out of the trailer and rode it to Russell Cycle Products for our appointment first thing in the morning.

When we got to the factory, everyone there was really cool. They opened a door on the side, and I rode the motorcycle in. They asked my wife and I what we weighed, and asked us to sit on the bike. They took pictures, and measurements. They also asked me to put my feet on the floorboards like I ride, and on the highway bars like I ride, and took measurements and pictures as well. It was a pretty quick process, they know their stuff.

Side view of custom Russell Day Long seat at factory

They told us the seat would be ready the next day, so we took a Lyft back to the campground. I am an attorney, so I ended up working in the motorhome, my wife worked remotely as well.

The guys at Russell, called me a few hours later and told me the seat pan was ready and asked me to come down to sit on it to see if I wanted to make any adjustments. My wife and I took a Lyft back to the factory from the campground.

When I first sat on the seat, it felt like the padding was pushing up into my nuts and it was very uncomfortable. Good thing they had me come in for a test sit.

The fabricator took the seat pan in the back and shaved the padding in that area. He brought it back and it felt okay.

Frankly, I was feeling under the weather, and I had never done a custom seat like this before. When they ask you to sit on the seat without a cover, with just the padding, it was really hard to tell what it was really going to feel like. Nonetheless, we accepted it, and took a Lyft back to the campground so they could work on the seat.

Surprisingly, the guys at Russell called a few hours later the same day, and told us that the seat was finished. It was supposed to take two days to manufacture, but they had the fabricator, and the gal who did the actual stitching of the motorcycle seat in the factory that day, and they took the time and effort to get the seat done in one day, which my wife and I really it appreciated.

We took a Lyft back to the factory again. (By the way the Lyft driver was an older guy, it was his first day driving for Lyft, and it was kind of funny that he kept on picking us up)

I was excited as we approach the factory to pick up my motorcycle..

View of new Russell Day Long Seat at factory right side

You will see many pictures of the seat here at the precise moment I picked up the motorcycle. Other pictures were taken a year later.

First off, before I go into the next section of the review, I want to say that I care about looks, and function on a motorcycle. I feel the same way about my cars, that is why I only drive Mercedes-Benz.

There are some guys that care more about function. There are some guys that care more about looks. I have seen guys with literal bricks as seats on motorcycle’s, and they probably cannot ride more than 10 miles without taking a break, but because it looks really good, they keep it on their motorcycle.

The Indian Roadmaster is a $35,000 motorcycle out the door, and I get nothing but rave reviews about it’s looks wherever I go from Harley-Davidson riders and everyone else. Even 2.5 years later everyone gives me a thumbs up when they see the Indian Roadmaster. They love the look.

The stock Indian Roadmaster seat looks like a work of art, but it turned into a brick to ride which is why got the custom seat. Who cares if it looks good if it causes you pain to ride? It does have the Indian logo pressed in to the leather.

View of Russell day long with my stock rider backrest at factory

When I first looked at the Russell Daylong seat when I went to pick it up, my very first impression was that it simply did not look as good as the stock Indian Roadmaster seat.

It obviously had a bigger area for my butt, it obviously had more padding, the lower back support was much more substantial, however the thread that they use wasn’t as thick as the Indian thread. This was only a first impression, I since have come to love the appearance.

Secondly, the sides of the seat on the stock Indian Roadmaster actually have a piece of leather that hangs down a bit above the side covers and are attached via side bolts on inside of the side covers if you want to remove the seat. I never really liked the fact that you would have to remove the back screw and side bolts to get the Indian seat off, but hereto for I had never had to take the seat off.

On the Russell Daylong seat, they do away with the side bolts, and the piece of leather that hangs down above the side covers. I am ambivalent to this because now all I need to do is remove the back screw to get the seat off, plus it is easier to get the side covers off, and it is easier to polish the side covers. However, a trade-off is that there is no leather hanging down to cover the top of the side cover. For me it really doesn’t matter. Some people might like the aesthetics of the stock Indian seat better with respect to this regard.

If you take a look at the top picture with the stock seat and the pictures below it of the Russell Day Long, you can see on the side of the seat on the rider part, where the stock seat has the leather that comes down and kind of covers the side panel, whereas the Russell does not.

Now my first impression sitting on the seat was that I had made a big mistake. Rather than sitting in the seat like I did on the stock Indian Roadmaster seat, on the Russell Daylong I felt like I was sitting on top of it.

Further, it raised me up a bit which I did not like, however, it also pushed me back a bit which I liked. I always felt too cramped forward on the stock Indian Roadmaster seat. With the new seat I have more leg room now. (Turns out now that I am used to the seat, I like  that it raised me up a bit as I will discuss below)

Close up of Russell Day Long Motorcycle Seat after break in

The seat felt kind of hard, but it was not uncomfortable. I was thinking to myself, well they just destroyed my stock Indian Roadmaster seat, and now I might have to go get another one 🙁

The way they custom design the Russell Day Long, it also makes it harder for you to take your legs and put them on the side of the motorcycle seat like on normal motorcycle seats.

The reason for this is they make a very big distinct place for your ass which is a bit raised on the sides. You can see by the picture how wide it is where your ass is. You actually have to put your legs forward a bit to get your legs on the ground. It actually makes you feel like a kid at first. If you look at the pictures of the Russell seat you will see the area in the front there you put your legs down. It took me a while to get used to this.

Frankly, at first, I was not too pleased. I felt I had made a big mistake. When I rode the motorcycle back to the campground, my initial ride on the new seat, which was just a few miles away, I was disappointed. Now that I look back at it, it was simply a total change from the stock seat, and I was not used to it.

Turns out it was like walking in a new pair of shoes. They are not comfortable until you break them in and get used to them.

Close up of back of Russell Day Long Saddle

The guys at Russell specifically told me that the seat would not be totally broken in for the first 1000 miles. They told me if after breaking in the seat, I wanted to make adjustments, I could do so free of charge for 18 months.

When we got back to the campground, I kept the motorcycle outside of the trailer, thinking that my wife and I would take a ride. It was actually getting to be dark and very cold. We decided not to stay the second night and to just go home.

I got on the bike again to ride it into the trailer, and I was seriously thinking that maybe this was not the seat for me. We packed up the motorhome and went home that night. For us, it was a long 24 hours of riding in the motorhome.

Later, after a few rides on the new seat, I quickly changed my opinion of the seat. Turns out, the Russell Daylong is a great seat for riding your motorcycle. Not only do I feel no fatigue on this seat, but it is downright pleasurable to take long multi-hundred mile rides a day on my motorcycle in all weather conditions with no problem.

Picture of Russell Day Long Saddle with Russell custom embroidered backrest

This seat gives a huge amount of lower back support which makes all the difference in the world when you are riding your motorcycle. Look at the pictures of the new seat on here. I could not imagine riding without the Russel Day Long seat now.

The issue of feet placement when putting your feet on the ground when the motorcycle is stopped, is not a problem now that I am used to it. I would rather have a great seat that is comfortable when riding, then have a trade-off of a seat that is easy to put your legs side to side when stopped but is not that comfortable to ride. You do not put your feet down when you are riding.

We took the bike to Sturgis, 2019, and did a lot of parading (stop and go for extended periods of time) with the new seat, I quickly got used to the new set up of putting my feet on the ground when the bike is stopped. We rode well over thousand miles in the week we were in Sturgis and Yellowstone in August 2019. Plus, we have ridden to many other places since.

Closeup of the custom embroidery gy Russell Motorsports on backrest

On the issue of the seat raising you up a bit, I am 5’11,” and probably around 6’1” with motorcycle boots on.  Prior to getting the Russell Daylong I could easily get both feet on the ground by placing my legs on the side of the seat. The new seat, the way it was designed for my weight (I paid for the heavy weight spring), pushed me up one to two inches.

At first, I did not like not being able to have both legs on the side of the seat, with both feet stretched on the ground like you can do when your bike is real low.

I can still get both feet on the ground, but the seat is higher. I am quite sure Russell can make the seat lower you, keep you the same height, etc., but they used my criteria when I went to the factory.

Now, I like the seat a bit higher because when riding I have more leg room from feet on the floorboard to my body. So, what I give up when stopped which is not much, I now have more comfort when riding with more legroom on the bike.

The seat is broken in now, and I love it. No more wincing in pain at the end of a long day’s ride. I have no fear taking very long rides now.

While at the Sturgis motorcycle Rally 2019, we were at some gas station at a remote stop, and some guy came up to me and asked me what kind of seat I had. I told him it was the Russell Day Long. He told me he thought that’s what it was, and showed me his seat which was from the company that I was looking at prior to choosing  the Russell Daylong.

A view of entire Russell Day Long with Custom Backrest by Russell

His seat did not have the stock heating because he did not pay for that option, which was available on his seat from that manufacturer, whereas I purchased the custom seat that retained the stock heating. His seat manufacturer (one size fits all design) offered keeping the heating which made it cost as much as the custom Russel Daylong.

Frankly, his seat did not look that good, I think the Russell Daylong looks better. I told him how I felt about my seat which at that point was a 10 out of 10 for rating. Hell we were in Sturgis riding hundreds of miles a day with no pain like the year before.

I should say that prior to leaving Russell Cycle Products for home, I picked out a custom embroidery design for my Rider back rest and left a deposit. It would take a week to do the custom Eagle embroidery, and we were planning on leaving the next day, however, we ended up leaving the same day as stated above.

I ended up shipping my stock rider backrest to them after I got home, they did the embroidery and new cover, and returned it promptly back to me.

Here are a couple pictures of the custom embroidery that they did on my rider back rest.

Back side view of Russell Day Long lighting effects image

When we got the seat, I ended up purchasing a seat cover from them as well, which we actually needed to use in Sturgis a few times because of the rain.

I have never used a seat cover on a motorcycle seat before, but the guys at Russell told me that any motorcycle seat has threading and stitches that create holes in the covering, and water will leak through the holes into the padding, which ends up destroying the inner padding, and decreasing the longevity of your seat.

I now use the seat cover while washing the motorcycle as well.

So, here is my final review of the Russell Daylong seat for the Indian Roadmaster. I give it a 10 out of 10. It cannot get any better.

Now that I am used to the look of the seat, but more importantly how comfortable it is while doing short and long rides, I could not imagine having to endure the pain of the brick which was the stock seat again.

I must mention my wife and how she likes the seat.  Many guys put their old ladies on a brick pad, hell I have seen guys make their old ladies ride on a friggen fender. If you want to take long rides with your women and hear nothing but bitching all day, then make her ride on the back of a bad seat. It you care about your woman and want her to be happy as well, get her a good seat to sit on.

My wife Little Teri absolutely loves the Russel Day Long saddle. As a back seat rider she says that she has no more fatigue or pain like she had on the stock seat. Further, she likes this seat better than the seat on my old Harley Davidson Electra Glide Ultra Custom. Russel customized the seat for her as well.

It was well worth the money and the trip to get a custom seat made by Russell Cycle Products if you are a motorcycle rider that rides.

If you do short bar hops and that is your thing, you may not need a seat like this. They do not call it a Russell Day Long for nothing.

I highly recommend getting one of the seats for any motorcycle.

My closing thoughts are that the guys and gals at Russell Cycle Products are geniuses when it comes to motorcycle seats. They have been making custom seats for many years and know exactly how to make a custom seat that fits your exact measurements and needs.

I have not been paid by Russell for this review, nor have I received any discounts or accommodations from them. This is just an honest review.

Here is a link to the Russel Cycle Products website: https://day-long.com/ , their phone number is: 800-432-9566

By California Motorcycle Accident Attorney, Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq., January 2020

The post My review of the Russell Day Long, Custom Motorcycle Seat for Indian Roadmaster, by Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

I have ridden motorcycles over 40 years in my life. I have dealt with all types of dealerships from all manufacturers, this includes motorcycles, and cars.

The absolute worst motorcycle dealership, or for that matter any dealership I have ever dealt with is Indian Motorcycle of Orange. I give them a “F” rating, and warn all my readers, and everyone, to do business there at your own risk.

To understand what has happened click here to go to my first review of the Indian motorcycle itself. Then click here to go to my first article about Indian Motorcycle of Orange.

Make sure you follow the links in that article to read the yelp reviews on Indian Motorcycle of Orange, which are strikingly similar to my own experience, and then come back here to read my final review of Indian motorcycle of Orange.

This will constitute my third article on the Indian motorcycle. This and a previous article are related to the horrible experience I had at Indian Motorcycle of Orange. My fourth and final article reviewing the entire Indian experience itself will be forthcoming soon.

Just in case you do not want to go back and read the previous articles, I will synopsis in a nutshell what has happened.

My fiancé and I went to Indian motorcycle of Orange in approximately June 2017 to look at the motorcycles. I was all set to buy a brand-new Harley-Davidson motorcycle when I went to the Indian dealership. We went to Indian motorcycle of Orange because it was the closest local dealership, and that’s where Harley-Davidson used to be before they moved to Huntington Beach.

We walked in and looked at the motorcycles. Their sales staff were busy helping other people with t-shirt merchandise. After about 15 minutes standing there like idiots, we mentioned to them that we were cash buyers looking for a motorcycle, and we would like somebody to come help us. They continued to Jack around helping the T-shirt buyers after we told that we came as cash buyers to purchase a motorcycle. We should have walked out at that point like some people on Yelp stated they did.

During the time my fiancé and I were standing there, I fell in love with the Indian just by looking at it. I pretty much decided that I was sick and tired of riding the same Harley-Davidson motorcycle year-after-year and wanted to try something new, a change.

By the time the sales staff came to help us 20 to 25 minutes had lapsed since we first walked in. Frankly, I was shocked that they cared more about helping somebody buying T-shirts and merchandise then selling motorcycles.

Their salespeople went through all the options and features on the Indian Roadmaster; I decided that I wanted to get one.

My fiancé who loves me dearly told me that she would buy the motorcycle, so long as I promised to only have her on the back of the motorcycle. I promised her.

We told the sales person and the general manager at Indian motorcycle of Orange, Leo, that we were cash buyers and we wanted to buy the motorcycle today, but we wanted the green and cream model. Leo told us that they did not have that color in stock, but that he could call around to his friends and find one for us quickly. I said okay, and we left.

The next day when I  did not hear from Leo, I called Leo to see if he had found one yet, he told me that he had not found one yet, but that he would call me as soon as he did. I thought that was odd because there are not too many dealers in California. You can call every 1 of them in less than an hour to see if they had the motorcycle that I wanted.

Brian on left, Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez on right

On my own, I checked the inventory of all the dealers in California online, and within 15 minutes found that Spirit motorcycles of San Jose had the exact motorcycle I wanted in stock. It took me 15 minutes.

The next day, which was 2 days after I initially spoke to Leo, I called him back again to see if he had found the motorcycle I wanted, and still got the same runaround. You snooze, you lose.

You would think that a motorcycle dealership, especially an Indian motorcycle dealership who is just now trying to get their sea legs and market share with an up and coming brand, and with their competition with Harley-Davidson, that they would bend over backwards to sell you a new motorcycle, especially a new ,000 motorcycle. Well they did not. They set on their ass and lost the sale.

In comparison Harley Davidson of Huntington Beach, knew we were cash buyers and called us every day to get us to come in and buy a motorcycle. They were offering great discounts. We however, were already set on getting the Indian Roadmaster.

I decided that I was not going to screw around with Leo anymore, and I called Spirit motorcycles in San Jose. Martin, their owner jumped at the chance to sell us a motorcycle and he was Johnny on the spot to get the deal done. This is what a motorcycle or even a car dealership is supposed to do.

Within 48 hours I was on a plane to pick up the new motorcycle. Sometimes when you want something, you have to go get yourself.

I rode the motorcycle home from San Jose, along the way, I discovered that the cruise control did not work out the door, but I broke the motorcycle in riding in from San Jose to Huntington Beach California.

When I got back into town I called Indian Motorcycle of Orange to set up an appointment for the 500-mile service, to get a couple locks put on the lower compartments, and to have the cruise control issue resolved.

I was charged over 0 for the 500-mile service, (hundreds of dollars more than all other Indian dealerships that I called) and the installation of 2 locks. I’m not going to reiterate all the facts of what happened, you can read about them here in article two, which resulted in this dealership telling me that my motorcycle was no longer welcome at their dealership.

Imagine paying $35,000 for premium motorcycle and a five-year service contract and having a local prima donna dealership refusing to work on the motorcycle because you dared to ask questions.

Suffices to say being a motorcycle industry insider myself, there was no way I was going to let Indian Motorcycle of Orange get away with what they did to us without the world knowing.

I wrote the article which you can read here, I posted a Google review about them, and a yelp review about them. Within 24 to 48 hours, both reviews were removed from both sites. There are other people who have written negative reviews about Indian Motorcycles of Orange who also had their reviews taken down according to what they wrote. I believe what is happening is that Leo or whoever, is objecting to the reviews, and maybe Google or yelp are taking them down because of that.

Just for the heck of it, I went to yelp in approximately August 2018 to see if my review was back up, it wasn’t. I wrote another review which is up now, which you can read by clicking here. What prompted me to write this 2^nd article about Indian Motorcycle of Orange was Leo’s response and later action or I should say inaction.

After I rewrote another yelp review, Leo had the nerve to respond to the review by saying “oh well if you had so much trouble, why did you wait this long to write a review.” I actually wrote the first review right after Indian Motorcycle of Orange screwed me around, and it was probably due to Leo himself that the first review was taken down. So, him questioning me writing the review a year later knowing full well that he most likely was responsible for getting them first review taken down, was a joke.

Furthermore, if you read some of the other negative reviews on yelp about Indian Motorcycle of Orange, it seems like I am not the only one getting the same shitty treatment and service from them.

It seems like people with Hispanic last names are the ones doing the most complaining, so it could be that this motorcycle dealership discriminates against Hispanic people. I don’t have evidence of this but it’s not hard to make a circumstantial case that they are. If you look at me, I look like a white dude, but I have a Hispanic last name. If they are in fact discriminating against Hispanics, they would be idiots because much of their market in Southern California would be Hispanic people. Why throw away good money because of ignorance and prejudice?

Anyway, Leo invited me to call him in response to my review. I was surprised, I thought that maybe Leo did not know what had previously happened, and genuinely wanted to try to resolve the issue. I even offered to him that if he made things right with me, that I would notate that on my review. Further, I changed the review, I mentioned that he had contacted me, and we were going to talk.

I called Leo and left a message, he returned my call and left a message, I called him back and we finally spoke. Pretty much as soon as we started speaking, I realized that this guy is in my opinion, is a friggin moron, and as dumb as they come. Let me explain.

Little Teri with the Indian We Purchased at Spirit Motorcycle in San Jose, CA

The main issue that I had with Indian Motorcycle of Orange to begin with was that their asshole service manager told me that my motorcycle was no longer welcome at their dealership, after I caught him lying about the status of a repair of my motorcycle being approved by Polaris and called him on it. See the second article. Further, the service manager upon telling me my bike was no longer welcome, after being asked by me whether talking to the general manager would help, he responded that Leo already knew and approved of his action.

However, Leo on the phone call recently where we, or at least I was trying to resolve the issue, tried to blame me and Spirit Motorcycle of San Jose for the issue, and not their lying service manager, or his own failure to call me back in the beginning after he said he would find me a motorcycle.

Leo claimed it was my fault that everything happened because I did not buy the motorcycle from Indian Motorcycle of Orange, because they give priority treatment to people who buy motorcycles from them.

He went on for a long time about how he looked for a motorcycle for me, but I went around his back and bought it from Spirit motorcycle, etc.

It’s all a bunch of bullshit, Leo had a cash buyer, my fiancé, and he sat on his ass and did not service the customer by calling us back for days. That is why we did not buy from them.

Leo also stated that if we had bought from them, there is no way the bike would have left their shop with a bad cruise control. Leo must think I am some kind of idiot. I have been riding motorcycles on the street since the late 1970’s, I ride in motorcycle clubs, I have been in the motorcycle scene my entire adult life. He expected me to believe that his shoddy crew would have tested the cruise control before delivery. How are they going to test a cruise control on a motorcycle he did not bother to find for me?

Leo is basically a poster child for the prophylactic. Let me ask you a question, if you are a salesman, or a general manager of a motorcycle dealership, and you are selling a $35,000 motorcycle, and somebody told you they were a cash buyer and wanted one as soon as possible, what would you do? Would you sit on your ass and not find one for the customer, or would you find one for the customer? If you are having trouble finding one for the customer, wouldn’t you at least call the customer to keep them advised as to what’s going on? If the customer in 15 minutes finds the motorcycle he wants from another dealer, when you had 2 days to find the motorcycle, do you think you deserve the sale?

Like I said earlier, Harley Davidson called me on a daily basis during this time to come in and pick up a motorcycle.

The reason we did not buy the motorcycle from Indian Motorcycle of Orange was because Leo sat on his ass for over 2 days, never called me back, and did not find the motorcycle I wanted until it was too late.

Rather than talk about the shoddy service Indian Motorcycle of Orange gave me when I took to bike in for the cruise control issue and their subsequent banning of my bike from their shop because I called out their service manager after he lied to me. Leo was all about my not buying the motorcycle from him.

After my conversation with Leo it became obvious that I was being punished because we did not buy the motorcycle at this dealership. Mind you my fiancé had just paid approximate $35,000 for motorcycle, with a five-year service contract, from Spirit Motorcycle another Indian Dealership, and Indian Motorcycle of Orange off the that tells me my motorcycle is not welcome there for service.

Do you think a Harley Davidson Dealership would ever act like this? Hello no.

I told Leo or at least tried to in our conversation in August 2018, that all I wanted is to be able to locally get my motorcycle serviced without any hassle. If we can work out our differences, I would notate my review, and of course for him he would gain another cash paying client on the service and accessory end of the sale. Most of these dealers make most of their money selling accessories and service anyway. What dealer does not want business or money?

Leo told me he would get back to me.

After a few days, Leo called me and told me that he does not believe we were a good fit and so they would not service my motorcycle.

Let me reiterate that, I have a pretty much brand-new top-of-the-line Indian Roadmaster motorcycle, we paid for a five-year service contract, and Indian Motorcycle of Orange tells me that my motorcycle is no longer welcome because we are not a good fit. What a douche bag.

In the history of retail and customer service, have you ever heard of such a thing? It appears to me that the people at Indian Motorcycle of Orange in my opinion are not only friggin morons, but they are idiots too. What kind of stupid son of a bitch would turn down a cash paying customer because we are Not a good fit! Hell, I was not trying to marry these people, I only wanted excellent customer service on our $35,000 motorcycle.

I guess Indian Motorcycle of Orange cares more about personality, than making money.

These people have a 3 rating on yelp, a 3 rating. The dealership I have been going to who I will not name here is head over heels much better than Indian Motorcycle of Orange. They bend over backwards to provide excellent customer service, because they are in business to make money. Unfortunately I do have to ride around 60 miles each way to get to this dealership. Indian is still building their dealership network and there are not too many dealer options in Southern California yet.

Now if you look at my experience, I am a nationally recognized biker lawyer, and I run a motorcycle news outlet

Leo and his crew at Indian Motorcycle of Orange have not only screwed me around, but they are screwing other Indian customers around based upon the Yelp reviews, and they are probably doing a lot of damage to the Indian Motorcycle brand by their clusterfuck operation.

What do you think may happen if go you there?

Who would anyone buy a motorcycle from a dealership who arbitrarily tells people that they are not a good fit for service?

It’s one thing to go to a liquor store and have a personality conflict with the clerk over a 2 or $3 item, it’s another thing to have a motorcycle dealership basically fuck you around  after buying a ,000 with a five year service contract motorcycle, and then refuse to service it.

Based upon my experience, you will be lucky if Indian Motorcycle of Orange allows your motorcycle in for service. Like they themselves told me, “they do not have to service anyone’s motorcycle if they do not want to.”

If you do buy a motorcycle there, or if you do need service you may have to take it up the ass if God forbid they screw up, because if you complain it is your fault that they screwed it up. If you open your mouth and complain, you will no longer be welcome as well because you will not be a good fit for service there. This is what they did to me.

This appears to be the only motorcycle dealership in the nation that does not care about your money, they care that you are a good fit.

Stay as far away from this dealership as you possibly can. There are many more ethical dealers that will be happy to have your business. In my opinion, Indian Motorcycle of Orange does not deserve anybody’s business. They are a clusterfuck of a dealership.

By Biker Lawyer and injured bikers.com founder, Norman Gregory Fernandez, Esq., October 2018

The post Indian Motorcycle of Orange, “F” Rating. The worst motorcycle dealership ever, do business there at your own risk. first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

INTRODUCTION

California biker attorney Norman Gregory Fernandez at the Old Faithful geyser in Yellowstone national forest just after Sturgis 2015

** 10-25-18 Update: I have written a final article on Indian Motorcycle of Orange, giving them a F rating, and advising all of my readers to do business there at your own risk and recommending that you go somewhere else to buy an Indian or to get service. You may read the new article by clicking here now.

** 8-28-18 Update: On 8-24-18, I heard from the General Manager of this dealership after writing another Yelp Review. My first review was taken down by Yelp for reasons unknown. and we have discussed my issue. I have not asked for any monetary damages or anything crazy. I only asked him to resolve this issue by providing excellent service on my motorcycle. long story short, I will write another article very soon to tell you what happened. Indian Motorcycle of Orange is much more fuc#’d up then I first thought. In the meantime, check out some of the other negative feedback on Indian Motorcycles of Orange County on Yelp by clicking here. There are probably a whole bunch more victims that got screwed and did not do a review.

This is part 2 of my write up on how I switched from riding Harley-Davidson motorcycles to Indian motorcycles in July 2017. You can read part one by clicking here.

In part 1 of my story, I discussed looking at new motorcycles, narrowing my decision down to two motorcycles, and ultimately choosing the Indian Roadmaster motorcycle. I also discussed how my fiancé went about buying the motorcycle, and a problem that I had with the motorcycles cruise control on the way home after picking it up.

Now this is where the story gets interesting. I have been riding motorcycles for over 40 years. I have been dealing with car dealerships and motorcycle dealerships for approximately 37 years.

The worst experience I’ve ever had with any dealership was last week at Indian Motorcycles of Orange County California,  I recommend that nobody purchase any product there, or obtains service from them.

Let me explain what happened.

Within a day or two after riding my fiancé’s new Indian Roadmaster home from the dealership where it was purchased in San Jose California, I called the local dealership where we live, Indian Motorcycle of Orange, to inform them that I wanted to bring the motorcycle in for 500-mile service, and to fix the cruise control problem on the motorcycle.

We are talking a $35,000 motorcycle that was less than a week old.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez at Sturgis

When I got to the dealership everything seemed normal except that there was a female salesperson there that gave me the silent treatment when she found out that we purchased the motorcycle from another dealership. (See part 1 where I discussed why we purchased the motorcycle different dealership)

I took it in stride, because I was dealing with the service department.

I explained to the service manager that I wanted a 500-mile service, that the cruise control did not work and it was a brand-new motorcycle, and requested that they install 2 locks that go on the lower fairing compartments.

We never discussed the cost of service, but I assumed it would be around the same as I was quoted from my dealer in northern California, approximately $200 and some change. I was told in northern California that it was about an hour and half of labor.

Before I left, I talked to the sales manager who was mentioned in my part one story, and explained to him that since I had not heard back from him, I purchased the bike in San Jose at Spirit Motorcycles. He told me he had found one for me locally, but part 1 of my story speaks for itself. You can it read here.

Later that day, after dropping my motorcycle off, I called the service department for a status, and was told that my 500-mile service was done, the 2 lower fairing compartment locks were installed, but that there was nothing they could do on the cruise control issue until they contacted the manufacturer directly for assistance.

They told me I can come pick up the motorcycle, and then when they found a resolution to the cruise control problem, I could take the motorcycle back in.

I asked them if they could come pick me up, just like Harley-Davidson used to do because I am local. They told me that they did not have the personnel to do pickups or drop-offs.

Although that kind of bothered me a bit because Harley-Davidson used to pick me up and drop me off for service, I took it in stride, and ordered a Lyft driver to take me to pick up the motorcycle.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez in Sturgis 2014

When I got to the dealership I was told basically the same thing I was told on the telephone. However, I was hit with a 0.00 for 500-mile service, and the installation of the 2 locks which could not have taken more than 15 minutes.

When I asked the service manager what was included in the 500-mile service, he gave me a list of things that were done. I knew the $530 charge was excessive and outrageous for the 500-mile service , but I figured I would eat it this one time and go to another dealer if I wanted later.

A 500-mile service is basically an oil change, and inspection and tightening of certain parts. About an hour and half labor the most. $530 for the service is outrageous.

When I picked up the motorcycle the service manager reiterated to me that he needed to talk to Polaris, the manufacturer of the Indian motorcycle, to find a resolution to the cruise control problem, because, it appeared to be a computer problem, and they had taken as far as they could.

Mind you, this is a brand-new $35,000 motorcycle, with what I consider to be a major electronic feature, the cruise control not working.

I had to ride the motorcycle over 400 miles with no cruise control from San Jose California to Huntington Beach California in the middle of the night.

Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez at Yellowstone

I told the service manager that I was planning to go to the Sturgis motorcycle rally, in Sturgis South Dakota, approximately 3000 miles round-trip, at the end of the month, that my fiancé just paid $35,000 for a new motorcycle, and we needed this thing fixed as soon as possible.

I was not rude or obnoxious in telling the service manager that we wanted to get this problem fixed, but I did express the concern of a consumer who just spent ,000 for what was supposed to be the top and motorcycle, that had a major electronic feature not working.

The service manager explained to me that since it was late in the day, and the 4th of July holiday was coming up, that they would not be able to contact Polaris until after the holiday. Obviously, I understood, and I told him that was okay.

On July 5, 2017, a day after the holiday, I called the service manager in the afternoon, and asked him if he had heard anything from Polaris regarding the cruise control problem.

He told me had he had not heard anything from Polaris yet.

I knew from my research that Polaris has literally spent millions of dollars in engineering, manufacturing, and marketing of the Indian motorcycle brand. I knew that Polaris had a great technical staff in Minnesota, there to work problems like this every business day.

I knew that if the service manager opened a case with Polaris, and called Minnesota, that Polaris would’ve jumped on this problem. I also knew that the reason why decisions like this are delayed is because service departments like Indian of Orange sit on problems and don’t report them to the manufacturer in a timely manner.

I gave the service manager the benefit of the doubt that Polaris did not call him back on July 5 and waited until the next day.

Mind you this is a brand-new $35,000 motorcycle less than a week old.

On July 6, 2017, after not hearing from Indian of Orange, I tried to call the service department at Indian motorcycle of Orange, and it went to voicemail.

I have never called a service department at any car or motorcycle dealership and went to voicemail. Usually somebody always answers.

I tried calling again, and it went to voicemail again. I had a sinking suspicion that something was wrong.

I decided to go on the Polaris industries website, and contact Polaris myself, to find out what was going on.

As I suspected, Polaris told me that no case had been opened on my motorcycle by Indian Motorcycle of Orange, and that if a case was opened by the dealer on my motorcycle, that they would’ve jumped on it. Of course, Polaris did the best they good to assure me that everything would be okay.

SERVICE MANAGER LIED TO ME

I called the service manager at Indian motorcycles of Orange again, left another voicemail, telling the service manager I called Polaris directly, and that they told me that a case was not open on my motorcycle, and I reminded him that we just paid $35,000 for a new motorcycle, and that it was without cruise control right out the door.

I further reiterated that we had a motorcycle rally that we were going to at the end of the month, that would require the cruise control.

I then asked him if he could please call me back as soon as possible so we could get this problem resolved.

The service manager at Indian motorcycle of Orange basically lied to me when he said that he had not heard back from Polaris on July 5, 2017. He knew full well that he did not open a case with Polaris when he told me that.

He should’ve simply stated that he did not have a chance to call Polaris yet. I would have been upset, it’s better than lying to a customer. The actions of the service manager described below after this point are not only reprehensible, but would probably lead to his termination in any other business or entity that I know of.

THE SERVICE MANAGER AT INDIAN MOTORCYCLE OF ORANGE NEEDS TO BE SENT DOWN THE ROAD

I received a telephone call from the service manager at Indian motorcycle of Orange, shortly after I left the voicemail telling him that I had called Polaris and found out that he had not open the case with them yet.

My fiancé Teri was sitting with me when I took the call and put it on speaker. I told the service manager he was on a speaker phone.

The service manager told me that;

• that motorcycles purchased from Indian motorcycle of Orange take priority over motorcycles thet were not purchased from this dealership. (I am assuming that this was the dealership’s way of punishing me for not buying the motorcycle there as described in part 1 of my story);
• that he did not have to work on my motorcycle if he did not want to; and
• that he did not like working with lawyers.

The service manager then went on to discuss how he had 20 years’ experience, and basically told me in no uncertain terms that I was under his mercy. He basically was on an egotistical power trip. Imagine spending $35,000 and a brand-new motorcycle from a company who then tells you to basically fuck off.

One thing that many of you may not know, but I have done customer service for basically 36 years. Before I became an attorney, I worked with some of the top aerospace, military, finance, computer, and industrial companies in the world providing service for complex data communications networks. I was also a national service manager for a major corporation. As an attorney, I have provided excellent customer service to my clients for 20 years.

I knew the service manager and Indian Motorcycles of Orange breached every possible customer service principal there is. My fiancé told me she absolutely could not believe how out of line the service manager was, and that she was surprised that I was so calm.

Frankly, I was calm because I could not believe what I was hearing.

I knew that if Polaris knew how absolutely horrible this dealership was, that they would probably take action, because imagine spending millions of dollars to develop a product like Indian motorcycles, and then having idiots like this service manager at Indian motorcycle of Orange destroying their customer relations, and reputation and providing the antithesis of good customer service.

I called the dealership back after the above call, to speak to their general manager. The service manager came up back on the phone, and told me that he had told the general manager everything he had said to me. And that the general manager did not want to speak to me. I did this with my fiancé on the speakerphone.

It became obvious to me, that the service manager went to the general manager, because he knew what he did was wrong, and was trying to cover his ass before I had a chance to call.

After regaining my composure from being told by Indian Motorcycle of Orange that I was basically nothing to them, and that I would be lucky if they service my bike, and that it did not matter and that my fiancé just spent ,000 on a top of the line motorcycle with a factory warranty, I decided to call Polaris directly to complain, and to call the dealership that I purchased the motorcycle to complain.

The motorcycle dealership I purchased the motorcycle from was shocked. They jumped into action to help me get my situation resolved. Polaris was also shocked and they jumped into action to help me get my problem resolved.

I am not going to name names, but I was told by a person either at Polaris, or Indian, that Indian of Orange was authorized to do whatever repair was necessary to my motorcycle, including taking the part that was bad off of another motorcycle if they had to.

The reason I’m not going to name names is because Indian motorcycle of Orange apparently breached their dealership contract with Polaris by the way they treated me, and if there is some sort of action taken by Polaris against this dealership, I may become a witness.

In a nutshell, dealerships such as Indian motorcycle of Orange, sign a contract with the manufacturer stating that they will service the manufacturer’s products, and honor factory warrantees. They are then reimbursed by the manufacturer for factory warrantees.

Going back to the story, I called Indian motorcycle of Orange to let them know what I was told about them being able to take a part of another bike to get mine fixed. I talked to a gentleman from service other than the manager because the manager was unavailable.

TURNING WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A ROUTINE REPAIR INTO AN UTTER NIGHTMARE

A short time later I got a call from the service manager asking me if I called to tell his department that they can take a part off of another motorcycle to get mine fixed. I told him yes, I called, and that he can contact Polaris to determine what to do.

He told me that my bike was no longer welcome at Indian motorcycle of Orange. He actually seemed to take enjoyment in telling me that.

I asked him if there was a way that I can speak the general manager to try to get this situation resolved, he said no. I asked him if he realized the ramifications of what he was doing, and the potential legal action I could take against him, and Polaris. He said yes, he knew.

In a nutshell, because I found out the service manager initially lied to me about contacting Polaris to resolve a problem with our brand-new $35,000 motorcycle, and after we complained about his treatment of us, he thought he would punish us by stating that our motorcycle is no longer welcome at  Indian Motorcycle Of Orange, in apparently violation of their contract with Indian Motorcycles and Polaris Industries, and in violation of my sales contract with Indian Motorcycles and Polaris Industries.

My fiancé and I have been victimized by the service manager at Indian Motorcycle of Orange, and this dealership. We paid for a top-of-the-line motorcycle, and a factory warranty, and the only local dealership in town tells us that our bike is no longer welcome at their shop, because we complained about the sales manager’s reprehensible customer service. I wonder if the owner of this dealership knows what’s going on?

Immediately after that call, I called the dealership that I purchased the motorcycle from, and told them what happened, and that if this was not resolved that I want to return the motorcycle, and just get a Harley-Davidson.

Of course, the owner Spirit Motorcycle, Martin called me as well is the service manager and spirit, to expeditiously get this problem resolved. They talked with a couple of other dealers, in order to get me in.

Furthermore, Polaris called with one of their customer resolution representatives, to resolve the issue.

Polaris industries, did not purchase the Indian motorcycle brand, and spend millions and millions of dollars in engineering and marketing, to have morons like the service manager at Indian motorcycle of Orange ruin their business.

Not only did Polaris directly intervene and talk directly to my new dealer and authorize the repair needed, they apologized for the treatment I had received. I made a formal complaint against this dealer, and told Polaris that I would like to speak to the owner of this dealership, to see if he knows what’s going on.

Turns our the Service Manger at Indian of Orange even lied in the service ticket to Polaris. He stated that we decided on our own to go to another dealer. He never told Polaris that he told us our bike was no longer welcome at Indian of Orange.

Even though at this time the problem has not been fixed yet, I have an appointment with my new dealership who is about 60 miles away from me, to get this problem resolved this Friday. The dealer told me they had whatever part was needed to repair my motorcycle in stock.

Harley Davidson Service versus Indian Motorcycle Service

When you buy a Harley-Davidson motorcycle, you know that there will be a large number of dealers nationwide to take care of you. If you have a bad experience at one dealership, you know that there will be other dealerships close by to help you.

Indian motorcycles on the other hand, is in the process of building their dealership network. Here in Southern California, particularly in the Los Angeles Metro area, there are only two dealerships local to where I live. You have just read about my experience with one of those two dealerships.

The other dealership in the Los Angeles area was apparently purchased by Harley-Davidson, and will not be providing service to Indian motorcycles anymore.

This lack of dealerships leaves customers like me with a quagmire. Because of the horrible service I received at Indian of Orange, I will now have to travel 60 miles to a dealership near San Diego, California.

Frankly, had I known about the lack of dealers, I probably would’ve went with Harley-Davidson knowing what I know now, even though I love my Indian motorcycle.

When I purchased the Indian motorcycle, I relied upon the fact that there were multiple dealers in my area. Obviously, I am not a mind reader, and had no clue that one dealership would turn out to be horrendous, and the other one was not going to be available to me.

One of my reasons for keeping the Indian motorcycle, and not just giving it back to the dealer in San Jose, is that I trust that Polaris will rectify their issues, and open more dealerships in the local area.

The Los Angeles market is by far the largest motorcycle market in the world. Los Angeles County alone has more population than 40 states in the United States. Orange county California has a population greater than 38 states of the union.

I am wondering what would’ve happened to an ordinary person who doesn’t write a blog, and who is not an attorney, if they had to deal with Indian motorcycle of Orange? I am sure this Service Manager has left other victims in his midst. There is no way this can be a one time thing with him.

This is a cautionary tale. I am going to keep my Indian motorcycle because I love it, but there is a bad apple dealership out there, and that is Indian motorcycle of Orange. I strongly suggest to all my readers, and anyone else who reads this article, to not buy or service your motorcycle at this dealership.

In my many years of owning Harley-Davidson’s and other brands of motorcycles, I was always treated with respect, because the dealership wants my business. I don’t think there’s any dealership in town who wants to lose money, so they treat their customers right. Sometimes a dealership cannot fix a problem in a way to satisfy the customer, sometimes you cannot completely satisfy a customer, but you do the best you can, you don’t tell your customers to go screw off if you want to stay in business. You don’t tell customers that you don’t have to provide service to them if you don’t want to, you don’t tell customers that they are not a priority, you don’t tell customers that you don’t like dealing with people from their profession.

If I were the general manager of this dealership I would immediately fire the service manager for his actions. Nobody is indispensable. The service manager needs to be sent down the road, because he is costing the dealership money, and ultimately potentially losing business for Polaris.

I know good customer service, and good customer service is not at Indian motorcycles of Orange.

Look for part 3 of my story, where I discuss my review of the Indian Roadmaster motorcycle in detail.

By Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez, July 9, 2017

The post Indian Motorcycles of Orange County, possibly the worst motorcycle dealership in the country first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.

I have been riding Harley-Davidson motorcycles for quite some time, off and on, for over 30 years. My last bike was a 2008, Harley-Davidson Electra glide Ultra – Classic,

I decided to take a look at obtaining a new motorcycle, partly because I wanted to see what new technology was out there.

I finally narrowed down my search to two possible motorcycles, a 2017 Harley-Davidson Ultra – Limited, and an Indian Roadmaster.

In my research, I discovered that the 2017 Harley-Davidson Ultra – Limited had the new Milwaukee 8 motor, which has water-cooled heads, which means it runs months cooler than the current motorcycle that I have, has 11 more cc inches of power than I have now, a redesigned engine mount which lessens vibrations, a redesigned fairing which is said to be more stable, updated hard saddlebags, and an updated head unit with Bluetooth capability.

Frankly, I did not like any of the color schemes that came with the Harley-Davidson Ultra – Limited. With a motor cycle manufacturer such as Harley-Davidson, I would’ve expected more choices, or even custom options.

If I chose to get the Harley-Davidson, it would basically be getting the same motorcycle I have had for the past 12 years, with an updated engine, fairing, stereo, and saddlebag openers.

In my mind, there is no way to justify paying approximately $30,000 for an updated Harley just because of the few things mentioned above.

When I looked at the Indian motorcycles, frankly I was very surprised to see how far they’d come. The Indian motorcycles in this class have a 111 c.c. motor which is called the ThunderStroke. It puts out 119.6 foot-pounds of torque, and has approximately 90 hp. Although it is air cooled like the old Harleys, and heats up like the old Harleys, this engine is a beast, trust me it has some punch, it is fast.

Further, when I looked at the Indian Roadmaster, I saw many built-in features that would cost thousands of dollars to get on a Harley-Davidson as add on extras.

The head unit on the Indian is incredible, it has GPS built in, a much bigger screen, and shows you all engine functions, including a multi-function display, right on the front bike.

Basically, the Indian Roadmaster is a beautiful bike.

Lucky man that I am, when my fiancé found out that I liked the Indian Roadmaster, she decided to buy one, for me to ride, with the only condition that she be the only female I allow the back. Of course, I said yes 🙂 this lady is about to become my wife anyway.

We went to a dealership locally called “Indian Motorcycles of Orange,” (More on them in part two of this article.)  to look at the Indian Roadmaster.

They had in stock, a black Roadmaster, a black and ivory one, and a red one, however, I wanted the green and ivory color Roadmaster.

I told Indian Motorcycle of Orange County that my fiancé was a cash buyer, and we wanted to buy a new motorcycle within a week.

The sales manager told us that he would call around to his other dealer friends, and if anybody had one, he could have it within a couple of days.

I figured that the dealer would be very excited to have a cash deal on their most expensive motorcycle, and that he would have jumped right on it trying to find the motorcycle that we wanted.

I called him the next day, and he told me that he had not had a chance to check yet, but that he would, and that he would get back to me.

3 days later I still had not heard back from him, so I decided to take matters into my own hands.

I went online and looked at the inventory of all of the local dealerships myself. I discovered that only Spirit Motorcycle of San Jose California had the motorcycle I wanted in stock, the green and ivory motorcycle. Unfortunately, it was 450 miles away.

I called and talked to the owner, Martin, who was very helpful, and we worked the deal out over the phone. Within 2 days, I was on a plane to San Jose to go pick up the bike.

Ironically, the day I was about to leave to go pick up the bike, Indian Motorcycle of Orange called me and left a message, but it was already too late, the deal was already done with Spirit, and I was on my way to San Jose to pick up the Indian Roadmaster.

Had Indian Motorcycle of Orange called me back sooner, they would have gotten the deal.

If you are a motorcycle dealer, I doubt you are so busy that it would take you days to find a unit for a customer, or at least call them back to let them know you are trying. It took me less than 15 minutes to find the motorcycle I wanted.

If you snooze, you lose. More on Indian Motorcycle of Orange below, and in part 2 of this article.

When I got to San Jose, they picked me up at the airport, brought me to the dealership, you can see from the pictures here that this is what I picked up. It is the most beautiful motorcycle I have ever rode I think.

The dealer sent his expert out to teach me everything I needed to know about the motorcycle before I took off on it, I had the service department install infinity Highway pegs on the motorcycle before I left.

This dealership bent over backwards to make sure I was happy. Since I did not bring a helmet with me, I purchased an Indian DOT meanie helmet with the built-in visor for the road.

How many of you have obtained a brand-new motorcycle and then rode it 420 miles plus home :-)?

When I got the bike on the road I discovered that the floorboards seem to sit a little bit higher than the Harley-Davidson Electra Glide Ultra-Classic that I have, and because this motorcycle has a rider backrest installed, I could look not lean back as much. It was a riding position I was not yet used to. However, It took all of 5 minutes to get used to it 🙂

Even though this motorcycle has stock exhaust, due to the size of the engine, it still stock makes a loud low noise that lets you know you have one hell of machine between your legs.

I was told that the 1^st 500 miles on this motorcycle is a break in. The 1^st 100 miles you’re not supposed to give it more than ¼ throttle, or keep it at the same speed for too long of time. After 100 miles, no more than one half throttle, and after 400 miles, no more than three quarters throttle.

I broke it in riding it home from San Jose.

The only complaint I had about the motorcycle was that I could not figure out how to get the cruise control working. I stopped and read the manual while taking a break on the road, and discovered it worked just like the Harley-Davidson cruise control. You first turn it on, then hit set, it appeared my cruise control was not working, a little upsetting on a brand new 35k bike, but I was not worried because I have a five-year warranty. Turns out I have a lot to worry about. See my write up on Indian Motorcycle of Orange in part two of this article.

With respect to riding the Indian, here are my impressions. It is one hell of a fast motorcycle. The pickup and go on this stock motorcycle will blow away most of my Harley riding friends who have had serious custom worked on their motorcycles.

The motorcycle does not vibrate like the Harley-Davidson which is actually a pleasure. On the Harley-Davidson when you’re at a stop light, at least with my 2008, the whole damn thing is vibrating like hell. The Indian is smooth as a button.

The handling on the Indian is about the same as on my Harley, except my Electra Glide has a much tighter turning radius than the Indian. The Indian does have fatter tires.

Above all, the Indian is as far as I’m concerned, is a far more advanced motorcycle when it comes to rider amenities.

The stereo is mind blowing, it comes with the 200 W, 4 speakers, Bluetooth enabled, advanced head unit built-in, with a cell phone holder above it, and allows you to plug your cell phone into the motorcycle and charge it.

The Indian also has remote control locking and unlocking of the tour Pak and saddlebags, as well as keyless starting so long as your key fob is close by.

There are way too many other amenities that I have not included. I absolutely love my Indian Roadmaster.

I’m going to write another part 2 article about the horrendous and outrageously priced service I received for my 500-mile service, and my attempt to get the cruise control fixed, at Indian Motorcycle of Orange soon. This is the same local dealership that did not timely call me back when I tried to buy a motorcycle there.

The reason I’m going to write this article is to warn you all of you about this local dealer, who treated me very poorly, and to I strongly recommend my Biker Law Blog readers not to patronize.

A final word of closing for now, I still love Harley-Davidson don’t get me wrong, but I am now an Indian rider, and I think that many of you once you go check it out will also be an Indian rider. This competition is good because now it will force both manufacturers to produce better motorcycles.

By Biker Lawyer Norman Gregory Fernandez, July 2017.

The post I have switched from Harley Davidson Motorcycles to Indian Motorcycles; Part 1 first appeared on Biker and Motorcycle Accident Lawyer Blog.